Seeking advice on types of putty to use

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:23 am

Where's the little lighter holding emoticon when one needs it.

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:35 pm

There was a young man from Biloxi,
Whose models lacked any moxy.
Then one day he tried,
On advice well scryed,
The putty called Aves Epoxy.

I'm not so good at Hiaku.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:43 pm

TER-OR wrote:There was a young man from Biloxi,
Whose models lacked any moxy.
Then one day he tried,
On advice well scryed,
The putty called Aves Epoxy.

I'm not so good at Hiaku.

Bishop Terry tried
Composing Aves Haiku.
"Nay," said Ter with five.

[-o<

Kenny

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:12 pm

...you guys sure this stuff is non toxic?

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:16 pm

Yeah, I mix it into with my salsa all the time.

Post by **TER-OR** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:57 pm

As I have pointed out previously, non-toxic does not mean edible...Erin.

DasPhule · Post by **DasPhule** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:01 pm

BUUUURP!

The only drawback is getting it out from between yer teeth.....

Erin
<*>

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:21 pm

...you sure you dont mean "telling it apart <i>from</i> your teeth"? how hard does this stuff get, anyway?

wish i had some now... i need to make a rather compound curve for a wingtip, but all i have is sheet styrene and squadron green. i think i know what i'll do, but boy do i wish i didnt need to.

Post by **LindaSmile** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:26 pm

Rock hard. Once it sets... it's set. You can sand it, but not sculpt it.

Linda

Post by **TER-OR** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:44 pm

If you make a master from something easily worked, like balsa or even foam, you can roll epoxy putty out like pie crust, using talc or corn starch as a lubricant, and lay the sheet over the master. It will cure to that shape, then you can rinse off the lubricant with water and prepare the surface as you need.

We really need to make an e-demo for these techniques....

DasPhule · Post by **DasPhule** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:12 pm

Maybe Limestone hard, but definetly not granite hard. It sands easily enough when set up. Kinda like, like, uh, well epoxy putty!

And it's definetly not poisonous. Maybe not good for ya, but it I feel fine and I've had a bunch of it in my mouth (to clarify, I'm talking about AVES APOXYSCULPT!!!) over the years. Mainly from wetting my fingers with saliva while sculpting, but occasionally chewing up a ball of it to freak folks out. Aint never swallowed it, though. At least not a goodly quantity of it anyways....

Erin
<*>

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:26 pm

good to know. i'll certainly be picking some up then... once i have... money.

DasPhule · Post by **DasPhule** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:54 pm

Me too. My 4lb kit is almost gone. Took 3 years to empty it. I think I'll try a different color next time around....

Erin
<*>

bluesman · Post by **bluesman** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:58 pm

The stuff is in fact non toxic.. what you're seeing is the Aves Effect...most of us are so amazed at this stuff that it makes us a bit loopy.

Yes, the stuff is very hard when cured. I was concerned because I had some unwanted blobs of stuff that had cured. Well, I just sanded those blobs back down to nothing, and it did not take long.

big-dog · Post by **big-dog** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:20 am

Anyone care to mention anything about the smell? I've never used it, but the Bondo stuff can give me a splitting headache from the smell. Tamiya is NO better. Given that animals are generally more sensitive and have better noses than us human types I'm betting the cats don't appreciate the fumes either.

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:49 am

big-dog wrote:Anyone care to mention anything about the smell? I've never used it, but the Bondo stuff can give me a splitting headache from the smell. Tamiya is NO better. Given that animals are generally more sensitive and have better noses than us human types I'm betting the cats don't appreciate the fumes either.

Aves smells like corn chips.

I'm not kidding, it really does. In a pinch I tried molding it into little Fritos but they were too hard to eat.

Post by **TER-OR** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:51 pm

Bondo, squadron and similar putties dry as thier organic solvents evaporate. These are usually the ever-freindly Toluene. Yum.

Epoxy putties cure through catalytic dehydration. The corn chip smell is an amine chemical which scavenges the water catalyzing the reaction. The two parts are mixed together and built into long polymers. There's no evaporative solvent.

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:03 am

another aves question guys. how long does the stuff take to be sandable?

i wasworking with some squadron green (finishing the tube before i get some aves...) and "dries fast" is ...not accurate. i wasnt using thick layers or such, just trying to smooth out an angled joint of styrene... well, me in my impatience sanded too soon (about 5 hours after applying the putty) and, well... it wasnt done yet. the underlying styrene is a bit soft and plyable, and the putty has cracked right along the very joint i was trying to cover. argh! i can fix it, sure. more putty, more patience. let it sit over night, like i've done before... i'm just wonderign how aves is in this regard. thanks guys.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:11 pm

Arklan wrote:another aves question guys. how long does the stuff take to be sandable?

i wasworking with some squadron green (finishing the tube before i get some aves...) and "dries fast" is ...not accurate. i wasnt using thick layers or such, just trying to smooth out an angled joint of styrene... well, me in my impatience sanded too soon (about 5 hours after applying the putty) and, well... it wasnt done yet. the underlying styrene is a bit soft and plyable, and the putty has cracked right along the very joint i was trying to cover. argh! i can fix it, sure. more putty, more patience. let it sit over night, like i've done before... i'm just wonderign how aves is in this regard. thanks guys.

The first thing I would say here is to forsake the Squadron. Amen? Five hours should be enough time for Squadron. Bondo, which is the same thing as Squadron, but better, can be sanded in an hour. If you have enough putty applied such that you have diiferent levels of dryness, then you've probably applied it a little too thick. The cracking is from outgassing; the top coats dry and the bottom layer of putty is still wet with solvent (lacquer) which is trying to escape. The escaping lacquer fumes bursts through the top dried layer, cracking it. Lacquer-based putties can be used, but should only be used in thin layers, and only for imperfections, and never for anything structural.

Aves, on the other hand, is an epoxy putty. It fixes two components, producing amine compounds and water (I think - ask Terry). You can build it up, and as long as it's mixed properly, you'll never have any drying/cracking issues. This has to do with the nature of the putty - it's long amine chains (right, Ter?) versus Bondo/Squadron which is essentially putty solute suspended in solvent.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:29 pm

helps very much. thanks. i'll order some aves soon as i get paid next week...

Post by **TER-OR** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:26 pm

The amine is a catalyst, it binds water - the polymerization is a dehydration reaction. Don't think drying, it's a catalyzed dehydration - so like making starch from glucose. The solvent putties rely on evaporation, which is why you can't apply too much at once, or you'll dry the surface but leave solvent deep below where it will only very slowly diffuse out - frelling your paint....

Tips for large areas - make sure the surfaces aren't glass smooth. If possible, drill some small holes and put a few pins in place. This will help anchor the putty. If nothing else, score the area with a knife or scribe to increase surface area. It won't shrink, so you don't have to worry about wrenching it. You can fill the big area, then use slightly diluted putty to skate the surface and make it smooth.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:17 am

I am using the Tamiya (White) Pla Plate 0.5 and 1mm for my scracthbuild. Man have I got holes to fill.

Does anyone know if the Apoxie Sculpt would work as well?

Post by **TER-OR** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:16 pm

It could, if you thin to a paste and skate it across the top.

If they're more like pinholes, Gunze-Sangyo Mr. Surfacer 500 might be a better option.

big-dog · Post by **big-dog** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:32 am

Thanks for the replies, sounds like something worth looking into. Dougal certainly thinks so.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:43 am

Thanks TER-OR. Will give it a shot!

Migmaker · Post by **Migmaker** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:43 pm

is this stuff brushable? ya know thin it to be brushed on a foam for a coating?

DasPhule · Post by **DasPhule** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:12 pm

Try the ApoxyPaste for smoothing and skimming if you don't mind spending on it. It's the same exact stuff, but already thinned out. I've used it a lot as of late and it's really great stuff. It will flow if put on too thick, though. It's really good for filling sealed voids in scratchbuilds. I put it in a pastry bag and squeezed it into the hul of a kit I'm scratching and it filled it up real nice and solid. Also used it fill some nasty surface scratches in the outer hull. Just skimmed and then sanded smooth, easy peasy.

Erin
<*>

Migmaker · Post by **Migmaker** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:14 pm

skimmed ....... screed?

DasPhule · Post by **DasPhule** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:22 pm

Skimmed, screed, scraped, squeegied, smeared, whatever you wanna call it. Smooth it out after an hour or so with a brush.

Erin
<*>

Arklan · Post by **Arklan** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:48 pm

i'm practically drooling at the possibilities... thats exactly the sort of thing i need for the model i'm working on currently...