99% Beginner with some questions about getting started

[longhornxtreme]

Hi all,

Just wanted to introduce myself to starship modeler. I have a few questions that I hope aren't too redundant so please bear with me...

I haven't been having too much luck on finding resources on the basics of building styrene models. Google just leads me to a bunch of models for sale or to various 3d modeling websites.

I haven't tried a model since I was around 12 or 13 and even then they were never put together very well... Now that I'm 22 I think this would be something fun to take up in my spare time as it will help me further refine the use of my hands for my future in dental school not to mention give me some cool results to show!

Assume this about me: I have great hands with a bunch of fine motor skills, I have little to no knowledge about different techniques of painting, I would prefer to do more handpainting than airbrushing solely for the fact of increasing dexterity (correct me if I'm wrong about airbrushing, I'm really quite clueless about it) , I have zero knowledge on how to prep the plastic pieces such as cutting the sprues and sanding and the like... and my initial budget is around $100 USD.

I would like to start building some of the various mecha styrene kits out there such as the gundams from bandai...


Now where do I start? None of my local stores carry these kits, I'm pretty much limited to Revell cars and planes if I buy the kits in person so I need a good internet store for the kits.

I also need to know the tools I'll need to produce a better model than just snapping together a low level kit. What's the best way for a newb to sand, do i need true sprue cutters or will a good knife like a Kershaw do the job? What glue do ya'll recommend to learn for the best results after doing abunch of models? Toxicity is not that important as I have a biology degree and will be working with good ventilation as well as latex gloves... I do have a cat but I'll be able to close him off from the work area... Are there any good supply kits out there on the net to order? An all in one package is not a must, I know that most things that come all in one are never equal to the sum of buying things individually...


I guess I'm just asking for pointers on the whole process, or pointing me to a good website that goes through the process in detail if that exists...

I'm planning on buying a few of the super cheap gundam kits to practice on for the first few weeks of playing around and then gradually attempt some of the more involved projects...

I REALLY want to learn how to finish the whole thing properly... i.e. paint it myself and any other steps that are needed...

Thanks in advance for any replies and I'm sorry if this is too redundant,

James Miller

[Mr. Badwrench]

Hi longhornxtreme, welcome to Starship Modeler. Don't worry too much about being redundant, this is the right place for asking questions. For general tips, go the the SM main site, and click on the Tech Library section. There is a metric ton of information here, from beginning to advanced. Most modeling websites have a section like this, but SM's is geared towards science fiction modeling.

Also, check out the Reader Gallery, particularly the Gundam section and Robots and Mecha section. Some of the entries are simple pictures of built up kits, but others go into some detail about how they were built. (Incedentally, when you finish your first kit, this is where we expect to see it!) The gallery is one of the most valuable modeling resources available.

You don't need to spend a bunch of money on modeling supplies, at least not right away. Later on you will anyway, whether you want to or not- you can't help yourself. It's a sickness, you'll see! Some useful things to have:

Liquid plastic model cement: Not the kind in the orange or blue tube, but the stuff that comes in a jar. Testors, Ambroid, Tamiya, and Tenax all make good cements.

You will need a good knife. X-acto and Olfa knives are common, but if you can get a good scalpel, that will be just as good if not better.

Sanding sticks: The same things as nail files, sold at the drugstore in the cosmetics section.

Airbrushes are cool, but you won't need one right away. Someday you'll want one, and when that day comes, you'll know. In the mean time, painting with spray cans is a good way to get a decent finish. Hand painting works too, but takes a bit of practice to make it look good. If you're going to brush paint, try to stick with hobby paints made for models. If you can't find them at any hobby shops in your area, try looking at model train shops.

The most important thing is to build. You can spend days or weeks reading about it and researching, but you'll never get any better unless you actually start building, and keep building. Never let mistakes keep you from building. You will make mistakes, on your first kit and on your hundredth. Just keep building, and you'll keep getting better.

And have fun!

[Shinnentai]

Badwrench covers the basics well. Two notes I'd add:

Check your local newstand fror hobby magazines. "Finscale Modeler" is a good all around rag, and easy to read & learn from. They catch flak here from time to time for not doing much sci-fi/fantsy stuff, but I don' t mind that personally (read for the techniques, not the subjects). Some good sci-fi/fantasy specific rags are "Modeler's Resource" and "Amazing Figure Modeler", although these are aften harder to find.

Airbrushes are nice, but a bit of an investment. Play with "manual" brushes first, see where that takes you. Don't go out and buy an airbrush unless you actually experience the need for one.

As far as dextarity goes, a good airbrush can be used with a lot of finess to produce impressive effects. It really depends more on what you're trying to paint than what you're painting it with. They don't require less dextarity, just a diffent kind. if you do end up looking at airbrushes, I'd say maybe go for a double-action model. Many modelers preffer a single-action because it's less demanding dextarity-wise, but since that's the experience your looking for....

[en'til Zog]

Hi, longhornxtreme! Welcome to the snake pit. Er.... Trenches.

One tool you will find very useful is a parts nipper. Much handier than a Kershaw for removing parts from their trees without damaging them. (And I LIKE Kershaw.) There are expenxive Xuron ones, and cheaper ones from Testors, and very cheap ones from Discount stores and Liquidator shops. Actually, a local liquidator is where I pickle up a lot of small tools, files, cllamps, chizels, rifflers, sanding stuff, spray paint (auto detail paint), bits, pieces, and occasionally 'donor' kits. Hobby shop stuff is nice, but pricy.

Is there a "Home Depot" or Menards near by? Check out their supply of "for sale" and "open house" signs for sheet styrene, cheap, for scratchbuilding and modifying stuff.

There is a similar thread somewhere down in this forum with a similar question. The subject was pretty thoroughly beaten to death there.

MODEL ON!

[Shinnentai]

One tool you will find very useful is a parts nipper. Much handier than a Kershaw for removing parts from their trees without damaging them. (And I LIKE Kershaw.) There are expenxive Xuron ones, and cheaper ones from Testors, and very cheap ones from Discount stores and Liquidator shops.

Go for the latter sort. The ones hobby shops sell for 14 bucks are just repackaged 3 dollar wire nippers. I have two pairs, one from Radio Shack, and one from Fry's electronics. I like the Fry's one better, but that's just because of the grip material. "Sprue cutters" is just marketing B$.

Some folks use toenail clippers. They work fine, it's just hard to manuver 'em sometimes because of the odd shape.

[TER-OR]

A good set of X-Acto knives and a box of bandaids....
Welcome back to the hobby!


I think you're making a good decision, learn from others' experience rather than flail around on your own.

I really like the Tenax cement and the capillary applicator from Flex-i-File. This is a "hot" cement, which dissolves the plastic, but it dries very fast. You can literally bond plastic together in seconds. After a few minutes, you can sand the joint. The capillary applicator allows you to precisely locate the cement, too.

Other sites to look at -
IPMS Stockholm has great resources
Aircraft Resource Center
Modeling Madness
Hyperscale

Those may not be SF, but they're good resources for learning techniques.

[big-dog]

For tools check out Harbor Freight. Also the Badger 350 is a great easy to use beginner's airbrush, this is from a beginner. You will not believe the results you get. Double actions are for people who can't figure out how to get the best out of a single action.

[Warped Speedster]

Howdy Longhorn, and welcome.

In case you're interested, probably the best modeler in town here is a dentist.

If you don't have a regular hobby shop near by, you can also pick up some modeling tools and supplies at some craft stores. "Craft Mart" (if you have one) has a fair selection.

Also if you're gonna be doing a lot of brush painting at first then I suggest you use acrylic paints for that job. They tend to brush on a little smoother than enamels.

And BTW, we expect any modeling tips that you receive here to be fair exchange for any future dental work we may need.

Have fun.

[longhornxtreme]

Thanks for all the great replies! Its really encouraging...

Well I found a comic book store locally that had some of the jap Bandai models. I picked up the lower level Sandrock gundam from Gundam Wing, the HG "Guntank" kit, and another lower level Bolt Gundam kit... they were all pretty much at steal prices I believe... 7 bucks a pop for the low level kits and 13 for the HG kit...

Then I went to the local hobby lobby and picked up some various supplies... I got one of those Testors starter kits with a bunch of gloss paint, some brushes, some sand paper for like 9 bucks... mostly got it just for the paint assortment... Then I bought two different glues, the non toxic as well as the toxic Testors glue in the funky little bottles (not tube though i do have a tube of orange testors that came with the starter kit thing) I got some more brushes, some EZ mask, and some acryl thinner, and an exacto knife... so that was around 25 bucks. I was amazed at how cheap some of this stuff was.

Pulled out all the sprues and started on cleaning up the first 2 sub assemblies... (legs) I'm not really getting the sanding technique... I've found I'm pretty good at shaving off the sprue with the exacto though... very minimal distortion on the plastic. I've also not figured out a good glueing technique... I first tried the non toxic testors as it was REALLY windy last night here in Texas (would've been blowing things around in the apartment for ventilation) and while it did bond the pieces after drying they just don't seem to be held together very tight... I'l most likely try the toxic stuff here in a little bit...

Now my big questions concern painting with the testors model master acryl. My flat grey that i've painted on the legs looks fantastic... but I decided i wanted to put a gloss black on the feet and that finish is just looking poor... Any tips on hand painting with these gloss paints? I really don't understand the whole idea of primers and the like, or sanding painted surfaces etc... Its obviously apparent to me that there's some brush techniques that I don't know that maybe I should know from common sense.. or is it better to paint a flat black and then go over it in a gloss clear coat? Basically I'm trying to get it to look smooth and having little luck...

As far as the dental work goes if ya'll can wait a little more than 6 years I just might be able to help out! I'm aiming to specialize in pediatrics though so ya'll just might have to settle for dental work on your kiddos

Thanks again for all the help!
James Miller

[Jonas Calhoun]

Don't use the non-toxic Testors stuff--a post it note is stickier. If you want something non-toxic, get a bottle of Microscale's Micro Weld. I know you can get it at best1hobby.net, but I don't know about anywhere else.

As far as brush painting, here's what I've had pretty good luck with: Get a high-quality brush, and decent paints--the ones in your starter kit are OK, but there are better. However, for practice, they will work just fine. Second, thin the paints down pretty good in a palette--not quite as much as you would for airbrushing, but close. Touch the brush to the paint, let the paint flow into the hairs through capillary (sp?) action, then quickly touch the brush to a rag--it will draw off some of the excess that will be loaded on. Then smoothly pull the brush along where you want to paint. Lift the brush off before all the paint is off the brush, dip it in the thinner, and then repeat the process. The timing is the trick. Practice, practice, practice.

You got some good models to practice on, that's for sure. They build up quickly without a lot of work, but need just enough to get some skills built.

Dan

[longhornxtreme]

LOL... here's bumbling me dipping the brush straight into the jar after its been shaken/stirred...

ANy good recommendations for a homemade palette?

Also can you describe the thinning process a little more in detail? i.e. pull some paint out on a stick and then a few drops of thinner...?

[Jonas Calhoun]

Nothing wrong with dipping directly into the pot--I do it if I'm painting small areas that brush marks typically don't show up.

I've gotten cheap palettes by using the lid of yogurt containers, also craft stores and Wally World have 6 well pallettes for under a buck.

If I want to add just a few drops of paint/thinner at a time, I'll take a straw, dip it, hold my finger over one end, and move the straw over the palette, then lift your finger. A few drops at a time will come out. Mix with a toothpick. One thing that has taken me a while to get over is the idea of wasting paint/thinner. They are expensive, but a few drops here and there that get used up in transferring paints is not worth worrying about.

Also, being a dentist, you will have access to all kinds of small files (I think they are called K-Files, they are used in root canals) that are great for filing small areas, burrs and cutters that work great in a dremel, etc. Go nuts in a catalog, they are almost as great as a micro-mark catalog.

[longhornxtreme]

Turns out I bought dried paint solvent and not just thinner... those are like the same thing but to a different degree right?

Well I tried the gloss black and used just a touch of saliva to thin it... AMAZING... looks like 10x better than it did before and then some flat black i painted now looks much more consistent...

Thanks a bunch... I guess you learn something new every day!

EDIT: I work at a pediatric practice right now and we don't stock very many files... (we really only do anterior root canals on baby teeth) so I'll see if I can convice my employer to order me up some kfiles sometime or see if he's got some he's about to put out to pasture that I can sterilize and then take home... thanks for the suggestions...

[Jonas Calhoun]

Dried paint solvent and thinner are really two different animals. Suffice it to say they arn't the same.

Using saliva--you must have water based paints. Good. I thought you had enamels. Acrylics are trickier to brush paint well with, but the techniques are the same. Instead of saliva, use distilled water with a drop or two of dish detergent, or a flow aid. (I used Liquitex flow aid--mixes 1:20 with distilled water, I've also heard of people using Jet Dry). That will allow the water to thin the paint easier with less surface tension. I've got a bunch of contact lens cleaner bottles that I've filled with the stuff so I can put a few drops out at a time. Also, with acrylics some sort of retarder will also help, again, I use Liquitex Slo-Dri. Winsor & Newton make similar products. Find 'em in a Michaels or a Hobby Lobby or somesuch place.

Dan

[Shinnentai]

Double actions are for people who can't figure out how to get the best out of a single action.

For mechanical subjects like cars, planes, robots, spaceships etc. this is true, in fact I'd be hard pressed to think of a reason one would consider a double-action at all for these.

However it's DEFINATELY not the case with creatures, and the larger the piece, the less true it becomes.

[longhornxtreme]

No... i definitely have acrylic... i guess it just worked with the flat black... I'll probly run up to hobby lobby and grab some of the thinner later... I thought i was buying thinner but I guess that's just a newb mistake of mine...

Water didn't work right with the flat black though... and for a homemade palette i found one of the keychain type measuring scoop things and just broke the ring... works perfectly using the smaller ones...

[big-dog]

Double actions are for people who can't figure out how to get the best out of a single action.

For mechanical subjects like cars, planes, robots, spaceships etc. this is true, in fact I'd be hard pressed to think of a reason one would consider a double-action at all for these.

However it's DEFINATELY not the case with creatures, and the larger the piece, the less true it becomes.

Hence my little smilie. I do have a double action too, and am planning on getting another. But the single action is so easy to use. For priming, base coats, clear coats etc. It's the gun of choice of Tom Sasser and Dave Merriman. I use the double action for weathering almost exclusively. BTW, my Dad's lady friend does amazing paint jobs on animal ceramics, painted fur, with a Paasche H, an external mix, single action brush. Her results prompted me to buy that particular brush for myself.

[TER-OR]

A double action will let you perform advanced techniques like paint fading. It's also better for soft starts.

For broad areas of single colors there's no reason to use a double action. That doesn't mean you can't use a double action for those. If you have a budget for only one airbrush, I still recommend the Badger 360.

[WedgeCharlotte]

If you can possible make it, consider attending Wonderfest, and come a day early for SciFiU. The courses are geared towards the novice/intermediate modeler, and you will not run out of folks to answer your questions.

[Dr. Yo]

You mentioned being in Texas-if you happen to be in Austin, you might
check out a store called Atomic City at 17th and San Antonio-he carries
an ecclectic selection of Gundam-some fairly old. There is a shop in
Houston, but I can't really tell you much more than that....and of course,
there ordering direct from an outfit called Hobby Link Japan. You can find
a link to them off the main page in the ' Where to find Stuff'.

Sanding, oddly enough, is probably my favorite step in the process...
I like Flex-i-grit products, though they're a bit pricely compared to
regualr wet/dry sandpaper from Home Depot and the like...

[en'til Zog]

I've used a lot of airbrushes and own a flock of 'em. From Paashe to Badger to Thayer & Chandler to Iwata. From little ones through detail guns (for real cars) to house paint sprayers. I keep coming back to my simple old Paashe H3. Love it. Simple enough to use easily, high enough in quality to do a very nice job.

Oh, for your future airbrush? Go to a good tool supply store and get a standard small compressor with a tank like a Campbell & Hausefield. It mainly just needs a pressure regulator and moisture trap and the trap can be in the air line near the airbrush. I ue my C&H for airbrushing and running a nail gun. Handy, that. And a lot cheaper than a specialized 'airbrush compressor'. Noisier than the quietest dedicated airbrush compressors but a LOT cheaper.

[Scholar81]

Oh, for your future airbrush? Go to a good tool supply store and get a standard small compressor with a tank like a Campbell & Hausefield. It mainly just needs a pressure regulator and moisture trap and the trap can be in the air line near the airbrush. I ue my C&H for airbrushing and running a nail gun. Handy, that. And a lot cheaper than a specialized 'airbrush compressor'. Noisier than the quietest dedicated airbrush compressors but a LOT cheaper.

I found two different reconditioned air compressors from Campbell & Hausefield for cheap I looked thru the specs and either of them mentioned if they had a pressure regulator and/or moisture trap. Do anyone have either of them? recommend them?

the first one is at http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/cat ... cts_id=560

and the second one is at http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/cat ... cts_id=375

[en'til Zog]

The second one (of course - the more expensive one) mentions that it works for airbrushing. Both should work, but the second one states that it does. I had no luck downloading the pdf files of the manuals.

What you need for airbrushing:
A compressor.
A pressure regulator (often ON the compressor).
A moisture trap - one ON the compressor or in the air line. Or both.
A hose.
Hose fittings to connect to the compressor and the airbrush.
An airbrush, so you know what fittings to use to connect it to the hose.

You need to check the full specs for the compressor you are interested in to see what you actually get with the compressor. The second comp you mention has a hose and some other things. I don't know if either one has the pressure regulator and/or moisture trap.

(Put a moisture trap IN your air line anyway, fairly near the airbrush just to trap that last bit of water that will inevitably spit out onto your model....)

Paashe airbrushes usually come with the brush, bottles to hold the paint, a hose, and a gadget that goes on the top of a can of 'propel' canned air that almost works and quickly drives people to almost any alternative to supply 'air' to the airbrush.

Some folks use pressure tanks that they fill up at a filling station and lug home to power the brush. Some people use a tank of liquid CO2, with a pressure regulator (CO2 has no moisture to trap). A few people use a car tire intertube for an air supply (WITH moisture trap and regulator).

Over to you!

[rocketrider]

longhornxtreme

Welcome, I would just like to toss in a note about my airbrush experiences.

If you are going to get one, get a good one to start. Stay away from the ones with the throw away aircans. If possible go with a double action airbush (Paashe VLS), one where you can control the volume of air and paint flow.

If you get a compressor make sure it has a tank on it, I have one of the desktop compressors and the movement of the piston produced a pulsing airflow, not good when you are trying to get an even flow of paint.

I have 3 Paashe airbrushes which work fine, and in the future I might get an Iwata.

Glen

[MillenniumFalsehood]

When I'm sanding I find that I tend to use 400 grit wet sandpaper more than any other, because it's very controlled(i.e., you don't remove very much material so it's very precise) and leaves a glossy finish. But if I have to remove a lot of material fast, I go for the 160 grit paper. The 400 grit is what you should use if you're going for a curved surface.