Scribing for the SERIOUSLY amatuer modeller

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:37 pm

Heyo all,

This is my first post, but I have been a fan of building models for a long time. My best model was the AMT Bird of Prey Kit...I spent a WHOLE lot of time on it...it was my pride and joy...and I smashed it when I got into a fight with my gf at the time. Boy, am I kicking myself for that lol.

ANYways, I got a hold of actual original 1970's Colonial Viper and Cylon Raider kits (the ones that had the pellet launcher things) that desperately needed saving (they honestly look like they were put together and painted by a 7-year-old)...the Raider honest to God fell apart when I picked it up to look at it

http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3703.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3704.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3705.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3706.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3707.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3708.jpg
http://users.shockware.com/firezone/viper/100_3709.jpg

I bought them for $80 for the pair because no model should have to live in the state of indignity that these models were in, especially the ORIGINAL Galactica icons, so I took them in, but I had to sand off all the Viper panel lines due to the thick globs of paintthe "modeller" applied, and now I'm in a bit of a pickle, as I have no idea how to scribe them properly, and I don't have the money to spend on scribing kits and such (I really had to save up that $80).

I am really good at improvising techniques, and the only thing I can think of is to draw the lines out and cut them in with an xacto blade or something...

Any help would be great. And please, don't get too technical with the descriptions, as my knowledge is entirely self-learned (but effective) and improvisational.

Thank you all so much for any input you can give me. Have a great day

Chris

PS - for an example of me improvising due to lack of funds, have a look at a computer case moding tutorial I did http://www.overclockers.com/tips1148/index.asp

Thanx again!

Mr. Badwrench · Post by **Mr. Badwrench** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:37 am

Good evening amatar, and welcome to the coolest place in town. I assume you already clicked on this thread, but didn't quite find what you sought? S'ok. Scribing can look intimidating at first, but is actually quite easy, and it is free. If you've already got an exacto knife, a roll of electrical tape, and some fine sand paper, you already have everything you need. Place a piece of black tape along the panel line you want to scribe. (Dymo tape works better, but most people don't have any lying about the house). Using the back edge of the exacto knife, drag the blade lightly along the line. It is important to use the back side of the knife. The blade edge will simply cut into the plastic, but the back side will excavate a tiny furrow. Do this across the line seven or eight times. Keep the first cut very light, almost as if you're just dragging the blade across the surface. But apply a little more pressure with each pass. Whenever possible make your passes along the full length of the panel line. This will keep the panel lines even, and prevent them from looking choppy.

Once you've got several panel lines scribed in, lightly sand the model with #600 wet-or-dry paper. Keep the paper wet. This will remove the raised areas on either side of the newly created furrow. But it will also fill in the panel with sandpaper slurry. So wash the model off once more, and carefully drag the back edge of the blade through the panels once again, to remove the dust. You may have to do this a couple times. Later on you may want to wetsand the model with lighter grades of paper, #2000 grit or finer, and you may have to clean out the panel lines after this too.

Scribing panel lines takes a little practice, and patience. But it is nothing hard. As you get better at it you may want to get some of the purpose-designed scribing tools. They do a better job in less time. But if you don't have them, don't let that stop you.

Good luck with your Viper!

Post by **TER-OR** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:55 pm

I'm not a big fan of the back-edge of the Xacto method. I find it chips or skips along too badly. A stout needle or better yet a good scribe tool works best.

The advice about going slow and with light pressure is dead-on, though. Don't try to remove too much material too quickly. If you put too much pressure on the tool, you have a much greater chance of screwing up. Let the tool do the work, not your "elbow grease."

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:19 pm

Thank you very much for your help

I'm gonna give it a try tonight, or within the next couple nights.

I have practiced with an exacto blade on a seperate junk model I have, with varied success. I think what I was doing was trying to do too much too fast, so I am going to give the "slow and steady" approach a try.

I will post the post-scribe pics for you to see, but it will be a while before I'm able to get the model done completely, as I want to get the Viper Cockpit Detail Set (and the availability of those to Canada is somewhat sordid, from what I can figure out), and I have to wrest my airbrush back from my uncle lol!

Thanx again, and I will be sure to keep you updated

Have a great day!

Chris

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:00 pm

Oh, and I have a question...why the tape? lol

Thanks

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:15 pm

amatar wrote:Oh, and I have a question...why the tape? lol

Thanks

The tape is used as a flexible guide when going across curved surfaces. This is where the "take it easy" really comes into play, because the edge of black electrical tape is rather soft. As was mentioned, Dymo label tape is an excellent, though expensive, guide for scribing across curves due to its very stiff edge. Hope this clarifies things.

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Just wanted to say welcome aboard! I can't really add anything else. But, chcke out the scribing thread in this forum for a little more help.

Kenny

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:07 am

Joseph Osborn wrote:The tape is used as a flexible guide when going across curved surfaces. This is where the "take it easy" really comes into play, because the edge of black electrical tape is rather soft. As was mentioned, Dymo label tape is an excellent, though expensive, guide for scribing across curves due to its very stiff edge. Hope this clarifies things.

I see what you're saying...I thought you were talking about putting the tape down and then cutting down the midle of it lol. Kind of like masking off an area to drill it so nothing gets cracked type of thing. I didn't make sense to me as to why I would do that LOL. My bad.

You've clarified things perfectly, thanx a ton

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:Just wanted to say welcome aboard! I can't really add anything else. But, chcke out the scribing thread in this forum for a little more help.

Kenny

I checked out the scribing thread first thing, but it was a little too muddled for the "non-technical" modeller

Mind you, I feel like an idiot for not really understanding it, but it was pretty technical, and like I said, my knowledge mostly comes from trial and error and watching my uncle do his thing with models...and he was freaking GOOD!

Thank you for the welcome and your help

Chris

Post by **TER-OR** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:53 pm

Trial and error is the name of the game - it's called experience

JupiterStation · Post by **JupiterStation** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:33 pm

Hiya amatar!

If yer gonna do alot of scribing, get yourself one of these...you won't regret it! They work great.

Micro Mark scribing tool

I like do scribing as been described above. Except, use the exacto to make a
"guide line", and follow up with the scriber and some fine sandpaper.

Good Luck!

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:05 am

Hey, that's awesome

I'm gonna see if the hobby shop here can order them! I like how it REMOVES the plastic instead of moving it, which is what I'm worried about...thanx for your help everyone...it's great to see a community that really WANTS to see everyone else succeed. I think I've found my new home! lol

Lt. Z0mBe · Post by **Lt. Z0mBe** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:58 am

amatar wrote:
Joseph Osborn wrote:The tape is used as a flexible guide when going across curved surfaces. This is where the "take it easy" really comes into play, because the edge of black electrical tape is rather soft. As was mentioned, Dymo label tape is an excellent, though expensive, guide for scribing across curves due to its very stiff edge. Hope this clarifies things.
I see what you're saying...I thought you were talking about putting the tape down and then cutting down the midle of it lol. Kind of like masking off an area to drill it so nothing gets cracked type of thing. I didn't make sense to me as to why I would do that LOL. My bad.

You've clarified things perfectly, thanx a ton

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:Just wanted to say welcome aboard! I can't really add anything else. But, chcke out the scribing thread in this forum for a little more help.

Kenny
I checked out the scribing thread first thing, but it was a little too muddled for the "non-technical" modeller

Mind you, I feel like an idiot for not really understanding it, but it was pretty technical, and like I said, my knowledge mostly comes from trial and error and watching my uncle do his thing with models...and he was freaking GOOD!

Thank you for the welcome and your help

Chris

Dude, don't feel like an idiot! There's a lot to learn and we've all been there.

Kenny

Post by **TER-OR** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:46 pm

https://www.starshipmodeler.com/cfstore ... uct_ID=146

I have a couple scribing tools, but this one completely blows the others away, particularly for curves and circles. It goes from fine lines to deep. It's well worth the money.

JupiterStation · Post by **JupiterStation** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:02 am

Oh, cooool! I didn't realize the SSM Store had that kinda stuff. Hafta add it my wish list.

takevin · Post by **takevin** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:49 pm

ace hardware has a nice scribing tool for 5 bucks only, does good.

Warped Speedster · Post by **Warped Speedster** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:01 am

Sometimes, regardless of the tool you use, you can end up with a undulating (bumby) scribe ditch. I'm not sure what causes this bumpiness at times, but trying to smooth it out with the same tool again seldom works. What will smooth out a lumpy trench is using an X-acto saw. Straight or curved scribes, on flat or domed surfaces, the saw will tend to level out the ditch rather quickly.

You can do this by moving the saw forward or backward in the scribe. One direction may work better than the other, it just depends on the location of the scribe and position of your hand. Usually moving the saw teeth forward will result in fewer mishaps. You can also turn the saw around (hold it backwards in your hand) and carefully drag it along.

This saw method really works well on domed and cylindrical surfaces where several saw teeth will lay a nice straight level cut. And yes, the saw will go around bends, even sorta tight ones. Just the first two teeth in the blade will be doing the work in those cases, usually. A tight bend may be an instance where you'll want to turn the saw around and pull it through the slot, just using the trailing teeth. Regardless of the bumpiness, I use a saw a lot to finish up a scribe.

Again, as mentioned, the best advice on this thread was to go slow, really slow. No, make that really, really slow. Scribing tools do a lot of work (or damage) pretty quickly so you have to be the regulator. Just when you think you're going slow enough, then go even slower. Even then, be ready to do some repair work after the job is done.

Scribing equals mistakes, equals repairs. So remember, whatever fillers you're using to make repairs, make sure you let them dry for a week or so before sanding. The deeper the gap, the longer you'll need to let it dry. (Sometimes I'll wait a month or more) It seems like almost any filler you use (even CA) will shrink if you don't give it time to totally cure. It's really depressing when you do a really pretty scribing job and then have hurried repairs come back to haunt you because you were too impatient filling in the mistakes.

amatar · Post by **amatar** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:07 pm

Awesome

I have a couple questions, though...

What is an Xacto "saw"? I work construction and I've never heard of them. Also, where do you get them?

Lastly, I've read so much abour "CA glue"...what is CA glue? lol seems everyone knows what it is but me

I haven't even had TIME to start my scribing..4 kids will do that to you lol, but I will update as soon as I get it dine.

Thanx again all!!!

Mr. Badwrench · Post by **Mr. Badwrench** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:53 am

Cyanoacrylate glue, most commonly known as super glue. Hobby shops carry it under a lot of different brand names, and in several viscosities. Watery thin stuff for when capillary action is required, thick, syrupy stuff for gap filling, black, rubberized stuff, also for gap filling and easier sanding. Don't forget CA accelerator, a thin, smelly liquid that when applied to CA causes it to cure within two or three seconds. Very handy.

Joseph Osborn · Post by **Joseph Osborn** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:40 am

amatar wrote: What is an Xacto "saw"? I work construction and I've never heard of them. Also, where do you get them?

Also called a razor saw; it's a small rectangular blade about 3" or 4" long with a very, very fine kerf and very high tpi count for fine cuts. They're sometimes sold with a small miter box. They are available at most hobby stores; look for them where they stock the craft knives. I think the one at Hobby Lobby is the Excell brand.

Darth Humorous · Post by **Darth Humorous** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:24 pm

What is an Xacto "saw"? I work construction and I've never heard of them. Also, where do you get them?

As one from the construction trade, you might know what a "back saw" looks like. Essentially it is a hand saw that often (but not always) has a rectangular blade with a thick metal bar ( the "back") added to the edge opposite the teeth for stiffness so as to make straight cuts. There are many sizes for various purposes, but the most commonly seen ones are used in conjunction with a miter box.

An Xacto saw (X-ACTO brand) is such a "back saw" in miniature. I think they are technically named "razor"saws. Hobby shops carry them. My local Ace Hardware carries them. You can go online at the Ace hardware website even to buy them online. Micromark probably carries them as well.

A jewler's saw is more akin to coping saws and hack saws. They have a frame similar to a coping saw, but different models can have variation in the blade-to-frame distance (throat). The biggest throat I've seen is about the size of typical coping saws. Like hack saws, they are meant to cut metal, but will cut other materials as well. The blades are typically thin in both cross sectional directions, being neither tall nor wide. Of course a blade is long enough to fit the frame, and is clamped in either end of said frame. The frame length is adjustable so as to tension the blade, and to accomodate broken blades. Speaking of broken blades, it is best to orient the blades to cut on the pull stroke. One big advantage is they can cut an irregular shaped hole in a relatively thin material by first drilling a small hole within th area to be removed, and threading one unclamped blade end through the hole, then clamping and tensioning the blade. Cutting out some windows comes to mind. X-ACTO makes one with a shallow throat, and I've seen them at my local Ace Hardware. Saws with deeper throats are usually found in catalogs or online sources.

There are some Japanese saws that have "backs" as well. I mention them not because the most common ones do not have rectangular blades, but because they have VERY thin blades. As with all Japanese saws I've seen, they cut on the pull stroke, which is why they can be made so thin. Their teeth are typically bigger than those of an Xacto saw, but this and their longer blades make them useful for thicker material. They are available at some big box DIY stores, hardware stores, woodworking catalogs or their associated websites.

Mark

Kylwell · Post by **Kylwell** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:23 pm

amatar wrote:What is an Xacto "saw"? I work construction and I've never heard of them. Also, where do you get them?

Also known as a Razor saw. Short, stiff, fine saw. The modeling equivelant of a dovetail or tenon saw.

Darth Humorous · Post by **Darth Humorous** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:37 pm

True western dovetail/tenon saws are a subcategory of back saws. They are very short in length for their given heights. Although they can be used for other cutting activities, they are best suited for cutting dovetails and tenons, since the kind of cabinetry they are made for doesn't require very much blade length. These saws are supposed to be used free handed, and a shorter blade length helps keep the weight down thus improving control. They are not well suited for a miter box.

There are smaller western back saws whose blade length-to-height ratio is larger than tenon saws that can be used in two ways: free handed or in a miter box. It is this dual natured family of saws that razor saws are members of. I suppose one could use a full sized, long bladed back saw made for a dedicated miter box, in a free handed manner, but I promise it will wear him out in short orderâ€¦er, not that I would know from personal experience or anything

â€¦O.K., so I DO know from personal experience

.

Ah well, it's just semantics at this point, but I think amatar has the idea.

Mark

Jonas Calhoun · Post by **Jonas Calhoun** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:59 am

You can also use some of the photoetch saws that the store carries...

Dan