Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

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Zubie
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Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Zubie »

I'm creating this thread for people to post stuff with regard to using 3d tools for creating models (hence in the scratchbuild thread). This is pretty much the route for starting out on a project if you are going to build something out of cardstock or paper or 3d printing. My own personal experience is with Blender so my 2c here will be mostly Blender stuff.
The following Blender question was asked in Thunderdome, and given that sections short run and out of the wayness, I figured that answer needed a more permanent placement and is as good as any to start this thread.
Richard Baker wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:29 pm I have used a number of 3D applications on several platforms over the years and now I am teaching myself Blender.
So far, so good- lots of pretty power features I did not expect to find in a free program.

I have hit one stumbling block and I have searched through all the available menus and cannot find a particular function, even with a possible rename.

I am trying to find the Boolean function for adding/subtracting one object from another.
Let's say for example I have a cube and a cylinder. I want to intersect the cube with the cylinder and subtract the cylinder, leaving a round hole through the cube.
Another example would be to have two long rectangles forming an 'X', I want to combine the two to form a single object in the shape of an X.

This was very basic in TrueSpace 3D but I cannot find this function in Blander, I am sure it should be in there somewhere

Can anybody point me in the right direction?
Just gotta upload the pics and be right back.
La maquina sobre mi escritorio es una "computadora" del latin "computare", no un "ordenador". El estado de mi escritorio afirma eso. (yo/me)
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Zubie »

Zubie wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:18 pm
Richard Baker wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:29 pm I am trying to find the Boolean function for adding/subtracting one object from another.
Let's say for example I have a cube and a cylinder. I want to intersect the cube with the cylinder and subtract the cylinder, leaving a round hole through the cube.
Just gotta upload the pics and be right back.
Ok...Back. First one starts with a set of objects on your field. Note this only works with separate objects, not multiple meshes identified as set of objects. This is a particularity of Blender. If you are in "Edit" mode, any mesh you add is part of the same object whether contiguous or not. Only in "Object" mode are new meshes different objects.
Image(note I generally won't post large img, but this was the smallest compression)
This is pretty much the default view of my version of Blender (2.79). I've minimized the 3d view's properties listing for a clearer view. As noted, I first inserted a rectangular prism in the world, then as a separate object a cylinder through the middle. In object mode you can see I've selected "Cube" (which was the parent mesh) and then one needs to go to the properties list and select modifier which is the wrench icon.
Image
I've circled the "Boolean" operations off the modifier list. There are some interesting ones there, but so far I've only played with Boolean.
Once selected, you will a couple of buttons and a couple of drop down menus. The two drop downs pertain to what operation you want, and what object you want to use relative to that operation. This will only function in "Object" mode. Only 3 operations are available: Intersection, Union, and Difference.

Intersection will look at the faces that interact between the two chosen objects. The result will be applied to the chosen object, not to the one that it is interacting with. Once you have chosen what object will be the one that interacts with it, Blender previews the result. In this case, only the section of the box that actually interacts with the cylinder will be left - the cylinder segment that runs through the inside.
Image
I've left the view in wireframe mode to see what is going on more clearly (this is generally the best way - sometimes I make the "cutting" object invisible all together). The highlight would be the result of the operation, the operation though is not final until you hit apply. If you switch out of object mode to edit the result will not stick, but Blender will hold this operation in the object's modifier operation property list so you can get back to it.

Union will combine the two objects into one. Curiously I don't think I've tried this with object that don't touch so I can't say absolutely what would happen then.
Image
You can see here the object has been highlighted is the prism with the outer ends of the cylinder. This has created a rectangular prism with 2 cylinder's sticking out the front and back face. Note it also resulted in splitting the face on each side (diagonal edges on the flat faces). This should also indicate the mechanism needed to create a cross out of two long rectangular boxes.

Difference is best expressed as the opposite of Union as used here. It is in a sense the Union of the intersection with the interacting object.
Image
You can see above that the box is now highlighted with the internal cylinder section that was actually through the inside of the box. If I hit apply at this point, the object will permanently get the hole stamped through. The operation will also be removed from the list of active modifiers as it has been executed. One could in theory work out quite a few modifiers and keep them on the list until you actually decide to do anything with them.
Image Operation done
From experience I've learned that "Undo" in Blender is not the same as Undo in other editors. There are 2 separate Undo lists, those under "Object" mode and those under "Edit". The edit ones only exist for any individual edit sequence, and object exists outside of all edit sequences. Since Modifiers are part of the Object sequence you can Undo a modifier op in Object mode, but be careful because edit sessions also fall under that list so you can undo an entire mesh edit session with just 1 "undo". Personally if I intend to undertake some complicated modifier ops, I tend to save the file first and "revert" to file as an Undo as what is actually going to happen is clearer in my head. (Note:you can even quit Blender if you undo in Object mode enough times without a "save" warning, so again beware).

I would like to say that these ops are always that consistent but they are not. I haven't tried it with more sophisticated spline surfaces so no comment there. I also know it tends to not work with 2d objects such as squares or circles (but will with a square face of a cube parent). I think some of it is affected by the actual "normal" vectors on each face since these define the "inside" and "outside" of objects. Curiously enough extensive editing involving the creation and deletion of faces on an object can result in normals pointing in weird directions (this is sometimes perceivable as face shading that looks out of place with adjacent faces). Sometimes it just does weird things and definitely a place where the preview comes in handy. It has occasionally failed on me, typically with objects I've very heavily modified. Another thing is that these operations quite frequently will add useless vertices, duplicates, and odd joins that can have an effect if you plan to "unfold" the surface. Your object may require "clean up" afterwards.

Hope that helps
La maquina sobre mi escritorio es una "computadora" del latin "computare", no un "ordenador". El estado de mi escritorio afirma eso. (yo/me)
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Wug »

Thanks!
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by naoto »

I was puzzled why it was behaving somewhat belligerently and constantly requiring input of ethanol... then it dawned on me, I shouldn't be trying to use Bender for the task.
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Bump
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Bump2
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Bump 3
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Bump 4
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Bump 5
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Wug »

Is anyone else here using FreeCAD? I installed it recently and I'm trying to teach myself by watching videos.
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Haven't heard of that one, how do you like it?
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by MillenniumFalsehood »

This really needs to be pinned. Lots of useful information here!
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

MillenniumFalsehood wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:26 pm This really needs to be pinned. Lots of useful information here!
Agreed!
Not sure how long threads in this forum last, hence my frequent bumps...
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Zubie »

Posts here don't get deleted (or at least fairly long lived...oldest post in this area dates to 2008). It's more of a situation of getting pushed down the stack. If you want the thread to stay on page one, it needs to be pinned.

I was thinking of adding more info with regard to Blender and physical models. One on using bg imagery to guide the build and another on generating "unfolded" parts. The latter is more of a paper modelling thing, but it can be applied to scratchbuilds from plastic card.

What'cha think?
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by MillenniumFalsehood »

Sounds like a lovely idea to me. Plus, I have a lot of experience making and unfolding papercraft models, so I could contribute my own tips and tricks. :)
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Wug »

Hi Richard Baker,

I like FreeCAD but it is far from perfect.

First, this is the only 3D CAD package I've ever used. I learned "mechanical drawing" with pencil and paper decades ago and never did much with it. I used Autosketch a tiny bit back in the DOS days and a free 2D CAD program I can't remember the name of (the icon was a pencil) on Windows Vista. Recently I fiddled around a bit with LibreCAD, another 2D package.

I don't really have anything to compare it with. I chose FreeCAD because it's the only real 3D CAD package and solid modeler that runs on Linux. Yeah, OpenSCAD exists but it's command line only. Possibly the most Linux thing ever.

Second, I'm using version 0.18. There's a version 0.19 out, but Ubuntu Software installed 0.18. That's versions 0.18 and 0.19, not versions 18 and 19. FreeCAD is very much a work in progress. There are bugs. On this install, it won't load add-ons. On the previous install, I had to start the program from the command line in a terminal.

So, if you have experience with professional 3D CAD packages and solid modelers, you'll probably hate FreeCAD.

On the other hand, if you don't have anything to unlearn, and you're not spoiled by other programs you might like it.

I'm surprised at how well FreeCAD runs on my old cheap computer. The parts of the program that work, really work. It's a pleasant surprise. There are a bunch of specialized workbenches. I've only scratched the surface of Part Design and Part. I've never even looked at the Architecture workbench, Finite Element Modeling, or most of the other workbenches. If you can install add-ons even more workbenches and features are available.

For me the initial learning curve was kind of steep. I had to simultaneously learn the program's interface, constructive solid geometry, and constraint based drawing. Occasionally I'll work along with a Youtube tutorial created with a different version of FreeCAD and hit a point where I need to figure out how to perform an operation on my version of the program. Similarly, some of the documentation is for older or newer versions.

So far I'm just starting out and haven't learned anywhere near enough to do what I want to do with it.

Unless you're spoiled by one of the big commercial CAD packages, I strongly recommend giving FreeCAD a try. It's free, open source, and runs on your computer. There are versions for Windows, Mac, and Linux. If you don't like it you can always uninstall it.

https://www.freecadweb.org/

There's an active community supporting it.

https://forum.freecadweb.org/

Mike
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Re: Using Blender and other 3D drawing tools for builds

Post by Richard Baker »

Sounds interesting!
Most of my experience is with Videoscape and Sculpt-Animate 4D on the Amiga, TrueSpace 3D on the PC and (I forget the name) on a Silicon Graphics Unix. I had a number of god programs on an older computer, 3D World magazine would include them on disc along with a demo vrsion of the latest.
I find most programs have strong points and weak points, some are great with geometry and others are great with nurbs. Importing and converting lets you use each as needed and FreeCAD is definitely something to add to my system.
While my ultimate goal is to create printable meshes, for once I have a system strong enough to do whatever I need today, my only limitation is havng to use free software due to budget constraints
"The future is not what it used to be" - G'Kar

Things go wrong and bad things happen- that is just the way the world is-
It is how you deal with it that tells the world who you truly are.

“Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” -Mark Twain

Deviant Art Gallery-
http://phaedrus-3.deviantart.com/
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