Electronic Circuits Help

Ask and answer questions, share tips and resources for installing lighting and other electronics in your models.

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Electronic Circuits Help

Post by Sparky » Tue May 09, 2006 9:07 am

Here's a sticky for electronic circuits and dodads.
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Post by Sparky » Tue May 09, 2006 9:33 am

Here are Zog's LED circuits:

The counter with external clock (Johnson counter):
http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4 ... pdated.jpg

The original counter with external clock (to see what Zog updated):
http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4017_diagram.jpg


The Basic binary Counter with onboard clock:
http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4060_basic.jpg
Please note, if you look closely to the cap, it connects across pin 9 and 11, not 9 (out2) and 10 (out1). Thanks to Sam, for pointing out that the eye can trick you, even I made the mistake. i'll try to clean up the pic to remove the chance mistake.
Last edited by Sparky on Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
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en'til Zog
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Post by en'til Zog » Mon May 29, 2006 4:29 pm

And Thank You, Sparky!

Welcome to the BASIC INFORMATION thread. If you have questions about electronics and lighting, this is the place to get answers. This particular thread will have articles and comments about general electronics and lighting. To ask a question of your own, just start another thread.

AFTER....

After reading THIS thread and looking at the other threads to see if your question has already been asked.

HOW TO ASK A QUESTION - START A THREAD

PLEASE! When you start a thread to ask a question - ASK THE QUESTION IN THE 'SUBJECT HEADER'. Do NOT put something like 'NEWBIE HAS QUESTION'. WHICH Question??? Put the subject of the question AS THE SUBJECT of the thread. Like 'How long will a battery last?' or 'Can you machine an LED body?' or 'How many kippers in a School?'. THAT's the best way to get answers, by being specific. That's also the way to avoid having the SAME QUESTION asked again and again in MANY different ways.

(* Kippers in a School? That depends on the size of each class, the total enrollment, location, local customs and mores.... For instance, in this School there are one ( 1 ) known 'Kip' - Kip Hart who does nice resin work. So DO NOT ask that again.)


These are some of the articles I've done for the SSM newsletter in the past plus some other bits. Eventually OneZero will put these on the main site, along with the illustrations for each of 'em. Then we'll put pointers to the individual articles so you can go, read, and come back with questions. Until then, here they are!

If you have questions, PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS ENTIRE THING. That wastes a lot of space on SSMs server. Just quote the SECTION name, and then ask your question. I'll try and make up a good answer, and so will the other knowledgeable people on this site. And there are a LOT of 'em! YAY us!


What parts do you find most useful for lighting models?

Welcome to the Sparky & Zog Show featuring -- CHIPS AHOY, the musical.....

My favorite chips are: (JAMECO part numbers & prices)
4011 - useful for single or double clock circuits. 12634 $0.29 @
4017 - decade counter chip - good for Cylon eyes or power cores. 12749 $0.39 @
4023 - Triple 3-input NAND gate - makes a good solid pulse source or mild LED flasher. 12845 $0.36 @
4040 - 12 stage binary counter - put a clock signal in - LOTS of outputs flash. 12950 $0.32 @
4049 - Inverting Hex Buffer - makes up to THREE separate pulse sources, clocks, or LED blinkers (3 LEDs, 3 blinking rates) slightly higher drive current than other CMOS. 13055 $0.29 @
4060 - '14-stage Binary Counter - SELF CLOCKING' - this has parts built in to go blink itself if you add a resistor and capacitor - LOTS of outputs. 13151 $0.41 @
4516 - Divide by 16 Binary UP-DOWN counter - great for 16 LED Cylon eyes or KITT scanners, with couple of other chips (the 4515 and 4069 or 4049).13549 $0.50 @
4515 - 1-of-16 Decoder, low output - takes the count from the 4516 and makes the LEDs flash in order. (try DIGI-KEY)
555C - CMOS version of the obligatory 555 timer chip. 27422 $0.29 @ or 126797 $0.51 @
ALL part for 555 timers:
ICM7555 - CMOS version of 555 - ALL part # ICM7555 - $1.00
LM555 - NOT CMOS - ALL part # LM555 - $0.75
LM556 - NOT CMOS - DUAL 555 - ALL part # LM556 - $0.45

ALL these are CMOS chips, cause they use very little power themselves, while driving LEDs fairly well. I usually buy ‘em by the tube of 25 from JAMECO. Output drive current is typically 8 to 10 mA which will drive an LED to useful brightness, and extend it’s service life into centuries.

To really drive LEDs you can use transistors (and a few resistors to make things civilized).
PN2222 - NPN transistor - ALL part # PN2222 - 5 for $0.80

In addition, I'd suggest some other parts - resistors and capacitors which are very handy for limiting current through LEDs (resistors - usually in the range of 33 ohms to 470 ohms) or for building timing circuits with IC chips (capacitors in the range of 0.01 uF to 1 uF and resistors in the range from 100,000 ohms (( 100 K ohms )) to 2 million ohms (( 2 meg ohms )) ). VARIABLE RESISTORS are VERY handy when building blinky circuits, since they allow you to vary the speed of the blink, or clock, or pulse source - the most useful parts are 100,000 ohms ( or 100 K ohms ) up to 2,000,000 ohms (2 meg ohms ).

One of the handiest Variable Resistors for blinky circuits is: the 200K 'trimmer' variable - you set it once, and usually don't fiddle with it anymore, unlike a 'volume control' which is meant for constant adjusting. ALL part # TP-200K - 10 for a buck. A dime a shot. Cheap. OR JAMECO's part # 3362P-204 $0.59 @. If you need more resistance to make a circuit blink slower - put a larger resistor in series with this one and use the 200K to adjust the speed within a smaller range. These are physically quite small, too.

I keep an selection of tiny variables on hand ranging from 1K up to 2 meg ohms. I buy assortments, then sort 'em.

If you are going to light models, you will probably want some LEDs, which some in all sorts of sizes, colors, voltages, and brightnesses. Generally, the brighter the LED, the more it costs. Generally, the cheapest LEDs are common colors like RED, AMBER, ORANGE, YELLOW, most GREENs - these usually need between 1.8 and 2.4 volts to operate. The more expensive colors are BLUE, WHITE, some GREENs, VIOLET, PURPLE, and ULTRAVIOLET - and these also usually take 3.6 volts to operate.

You can also use 'Electroluminescent Sheet' or 'Electroluminescent Wire' ( EL sheet or EL wire ) for lighting effects. This stuff is essentially a plastic sheet or wire that lights up - or at least glows - when energized by the proper inverter. These things often come in complete kits with inverters and places to put the batteries.

Another option is 'Cold Cathode Fluorescent Tubes' ( CCFT ). Like regular Fluorescent tubes, but very small and thin, they need to be driven by their own Inverters to provide the high voltage (at VERY very low amperage) they need to operate.

DO NOT try and power EL sheet, EL wire, or CCFTs with 110 VAC or whatever comes out of your wall outlets or mains outlets. Use the proper inverters and batteries to prevent possible lethal shock hazards.

Do NOT try and use 'Light Bulbs' - those little glass things with wires inside that get real hot and burn out SO easily and quickly. Don't. EVER.

JAMECO has some excellent parts packs or 'Component Cabinets' - carefully selected groups of resistors, caps, etc pre-packaged into bundles so you can buy one line item and get a pretty good assortment of values. These are factory new, prime units selected to have the 'most useful' values commonly needed.

There are two ways to buy these assortments - with a nice cabinet of drawers to put them in, or without. If you have a source of cheap drawer units, get the ones 'without' the cabinet which costs an additional $12.00.

Favorite assortments:
Resistors - 1/8th watt (tiny) 108302 12.95
Resistors - 1/4 watt (larger, handle more power) 103165 12.95

Capacitors - the ceramic assortments are nice but have a LOT of small values that you probably will not use, the tantalums are expensive but have a good range of values. My suggestion? Buy a selection of capacitors as discrete batches. You don't need high voltage rating for any of these - if you power your circuits with a 9 volt battery, then a 16 volt rating cap should be just fine. And small. (The higher the voltage a cap is rated at, the large the physical size of the cap for a given value and construction.) JAMECO's mylar caps run between $0.04 (yup, 4 cents each) up to $0.26 for useful values. At a certain point, it’s cheaper to go to aluminum caps.

Selecting for 'cheap':
.018 uF mylar - 207837 - $0.40 for 10
.047 uF mylar - 26930 - $1.20 for 10
.1 uF mylar - 135562 - $1.40 for 10
.47 uF mylar - 26999 - $2.63 for 10
1.0. uF aluminum axial lead - 10866 - $1.11 for 10
4.7. uF aluminum axial lead - 11076 - $1.62 for 10
Total cost - $8.36 - less than a pre-bundled assortment containing values you will probably never use..

They also have 'Grab Bags' of mixed assorted parts, which they make NO attempt to sort other than by general types. I like the Grab Bag of assorted trimmer pots just to get a bunch of assorted units cheap.

Oh, and you might get together with a few other builders and get a POUND 'Grab Bag' of assorted LEDs from Jameco - expensive at $45 but you get a LOT of LEDs. Mixed - anything that they have to hand, but neat stuff. JAMECO part # 135271 for $45.00 - and about 1900 LEDs!

Sources for ‘stuff’ in general order from cheapest to most expensive:

ALL electronics - www.allelectronics.com - small company, some real good prices, modest stock. A quite extensive range of discrete resistors, and some 1 WATT LEDs.

JAMECO electronics - www.jameco.com - a medium sized company (and getting larger) with decent prices, a broad product line. Extensive lines of capacitors, limited resistors. Good selection of IC's at good prices.

DIGI-KEY electronics - www.digikey.com - large commercial house with extensive lines of merchandise, LEDs especially. Normal commercial prices too.

For LEDs you might try The LED Light - www.theledlight.com - with good stocks of commercially priced LEDs including 1,3, & 5 WATT units - REAL bright.

Also Superbright LEDs for - well - real bright LEDs! www.superbrightleds.com Good prices, some unique units.

Yeah, there are lots of other sources of stuff. These are just the ones I often use.
The Experimenters "Bread Board" - Your Friend

The experimenters "bread board" is a handy place to try out various circuits and LED arrays. The basic idea is to stuff the legs or leads of an LED or other component into holes for adjacent 'parts conductors'. These conductors are spring contacts that grip the leads of the parts, or the bare ends of 'jumper wires' used to connect between parts. The 'parts conductors' are short ones that connect (usually) 5 holes radiating from the empty center channel toward the edges of the breadboard. The 'power conductors' are the very long ones that run along the edges of the board to provide handy places to pick off power for components.

Lets do a simple circuit. Take an LED. One with straight leads, no bends or kinks. Keeping the wire leads vertical to the block, shove both wires into holes for adjacent 'parts conductors'. (See diagram.) There should be some initial resistance to the installation since you're forcing the leads into the springy conductors. Now you (should) have an LED clenched in the grip of the board. Make sure the leads are NOT in holes for the same connector.

Next, take a resistor, bend one of the leads over until the resistor and leads are in a 'U' shape. If the leads are very uneven in length this way, you may want to clip off the longer lead so both are about the same length. Push each of the leads into holes in the block - one lead into one of the same 'parts conductors' as one lead of the LED, one lead into a 'free' conductor without any other leads stuffed into it.

You now have the resistor and LED in series - one lead of each sharing the same (short) 'parts conductor'. The 'parts conductor' connects the two leads, making electrical contact with each.

Now you can take short lengths of #24 or #26 SOLID conductor wire and make some 'jumper' wires. Strip about 1/2 or 1/4 inch of insulation off of the ends of each wire. Shove one end into the 'parts conductor' that has one AND ONLY ONE lead of the LED in it. This connects the wire to the LED. Then shove the other end of that wire into one hole in a long 'POWER conductor' run.

Take another 'jumper wire' and shove it into the 'parts conductor' run that has one and ONLY one lead from the RESISTOR in it. This connects the wire to the resistor. Shove the other end of that wire into another 'power conductor' run, NOT the one you connected to in the above step with the LED.

Finally, you can take the wires from your battery and connect them to the TWO DIFFERENT 'power conductors'. The LED should light. If it doesn't, reverse the battery connections to the 'power conductors'. If it still doesn't, your battery may be dead, or you missed putting wires into the right conductors.

DO NOT put the wires from your battery or power supply into the SAME 'POWER CONDUCTOR' or you will short out and probably ruin the battery.

This may seem like a lot of effort to light one LED. And it is. BUT, it allows you to try different combinations of LEDs and resistors, easily. And if you are working with several LEDS, each with different voltage needs, and thus different resistor values, it's the EASY way to make sure all the LEDs light evenly. And a wonderful way to try out more complex circuits, say with a 4060 IC.

Keep on modeling!

Cool! Now does that make it so all of the negatives are connected and all of the positives are connected? - X

If you are consistent on how you put the LEDs into the board (like, all the LONGEST leads in the Positive power conductor) that should be it. If you put power to the board and some LEDs don't light, reverse the power connections to the board and see if those "dead" LEDs then DO light. That just means that they are in the board 'backward'. That's the 'fun' of LEDs - they're polarized.

Just make VERY sure none of the resistors short out (touch) the wrong leads of the LEDs or you could blow the LED. The first wiring idea, with all the short 'jumpers' helped to prevent these short circuits. You may want to space out the LEDs as much as you can, and run the 'other' lead of the resistor a bit farther away from the LEDs leads.



Wall Warts

What is a 'Wall Wart'? It's the colloquial name for a power supply that plugs into a wall outlet, and puts out controlled voltage, usually lower than what comes out of the wall. They most often look like 2 inch cubes with two prongs on one side, and a wire coming out of - somewhere else.

Wall warts are very handy for powering the electronics in models - lights, sound chips, etc. - while they are on semi-permanent display. No batteries to replace, no worry that if you leave a model 'on' that it will 'run down'. But there are a few things to think about.

AC or DC? Wall warts come in two distinct flavors. One kind puts out Alternating Current, like what comes out of the wall outlet, but at a lower voltage. This might be nice for light bulbs, but most models use LEDs or electronics that need Direct Current (or DC - no relation to the comics company). Do NOT get a wall wart labeled “AC-ACâ€￾ if you need DC or need to replace battery power (batteries are DC power sources). Get a wall wart that is labeled “AC - DCâ€￾ or you may have more problems than you want.

“Regulatedâ€￾ or “UN-Regulatedâ€￾? DC power supplies put out a relatively steady electric current. BUT.... Cheap wall warts that are not clearly described as ‘regulated’ are NOT regulated. Which means what? UN-regulated DC power supplies put out their stated voltage (like “6 voltsâ€￾) only when they are running “under loadâ€￾ or when whatever you are powering is taking almost all the current the wart is rated to put out. An UN-regulated wart that is supposed to put out 6 volts at 500 mA, will. But at lower power drains, it will put out MORE VOLTAGE - so that when you ‘load it down’ to it’s rated output it will still have ‘enough’ voltage to meet it’s voltage rating. A 12 volt UN-regulated power supply may put out 17 volts at very low power drains - like when running a few LEDs. This can be very bad for the LEDs health.

A “Regulatedâ€￾ wall wart has additional circuitry that keeps the output ‘regulated’ to stay at it’s rated voltage independant of ‘load’. A 12 volt REGULATED power supply will put out 12 volts at pretty much any power drain - from flea power (a couple ‘a LEDs) to its full amperage rating. A 6 volt REGULATED supply will stay at 6 volts. This makes LEDs and other electronical gadgets MUCH happier and long lived.

You can power models with a wall wart at home (or at the rare contest where an outlet is available) and use batteries at a contest, or where an outlet is NOT available.



A Switch In Time

O.k. We’ve "talked" a lot about putting electronical bits into models - usually LEDs. And we’ve talked a bit about powering them - batteries and "Wall Warts". But we’ve ignored one sort of important subject - controlling the lites and stuff. Meaning "Switches".

An electrical "switch" is just a faucet for controlling electricity. Like - er - a light switch. One position of an actuator has the current flowing or “ONâ€￾. Another position has the current stopped or “OFFâ€￾. Yeah, real basic. So lets expand on that subject.

There are two basic types of switch. The “MOMENTARYâ€￾ type is NORMALLY either "OFF" or "ON". Pushing or turning or "flipping" the switch momentarily changes it to the "other" position. A “N.O.â€￾ or “ Normally Openâ€￾ switch is most of the time "OPEN" or "OFF". Actuating it turns it "CLOSED" or "ON" for a brief time - as long as you hold the button down or toggle flipped. When you let go, the switch pops back to the "OFF" position. Like a conventional door bell.

A “N.C.â€￾ switch is “Normally Closedâ€￾ or “ONâ€￾ most of the time. Actuating it turns it “OFFâ€￾ for a while. (Like the light switch inside an refrigerator.)

The other major type of switch holds whatever position you set it to. If it"s "OFF" and you flip it to "ON" it stays "ON" until you turn it "Off". Like a room light switch.

There are several ways to "actuate" a switch. You can "flip" a lever or "toggle arm" like a conventional light switch. You can "push" a button like a door bell. You can "slide" a "slide button" like an old fashioned flashlight. You can turn a knob like a stove knob or old style radio knob.

These are called, respectively, “Toggle Switchesâ€￾ like light switches, “Push Buttonsâ€￾ like door bells, “Slide Switchesâ€￾, and “Turn Switches.

So far, so good. And so basic....

But, how do you put a switch into a model to activate the LEDs or sound recorder chip? AND not make it so obvious that it looks like a “TURN ON MODEL HEREâ€￾ sign?

Ah, lots of ways.

One of the easiest is to use a “Push ON/Push OFFâ€￾ push button. Each time you push it, it changes. If it was “OFFâ€￾ and it gets pushed, it turns “ONâ€￾ and stays “ONâ€￾. If it was “ONâ€￾ and gets pushed, it turns “OFFâ€￾ and stays “OFFâ€￾ - until deliberately pushed again. You can hide the button as part of a detail on the surface of the model - like putting the R2 unit of an X-wing on the end of the button, and the switch in the body of the model. Push the R2 down and it turns things “OFFâ€￾. Push him again, and things turn “ONâ€￾. Just make sure you use REAL good paint so it doesn’t wipe OFF.

A variation works well in tanks - without interiors. Hollow out the body of the tank commander, standing proud in his hatchway, and plunk him down over the handle of a “Toggle Switchâ€￾ glued into the turret. Pushed forward, “OFFâ€￾. Pulled backward into full upright position, “ONâ€￾.

Does the vehicle/model/thing have a visible rotating part like a radar antenna? Make the shaft of the part an extension of a “Rotary Switchâ€￾. Turn one way for “ONâ€￾, the other for “OFFâ€￾.

If the model has raised details or panels, you could put a “Slide Switchâ€￾ inside the model and glue and pin a panel or "greeblie" to the shaft. Slide thisaway for “OFFâ€￾ and thataway for “ONâ€￾.

A sneaky friend needed a power switch for a very nice little sports car model but didn’t want to muck up the surface with a visible switch. He put a “Slide Switchâ€￾ inside the car firmly glued to the chassis, drilled a hole through the switch "knob" and ran a length of "music wire" or "piano wire" through it and outside the model where it became the cars antenna! Pull up - “ONâ€￾. Push down - “OFFâ€￾. Cunning. You just have to make sure the switch is firmly anchored and that the wire slides freely. (Run the end of the wire through the switch knob, and bend the end up so it won’t slide out once installed.)

If your model is fairly large, and you are free to engreeble the surface at will, you could also just have the shaft of a switch poking through the surface and painted to match. Toggle switches are good for this - you can even put a dish antenna on the shaft!

I won’t go into "Touch Switchesâ€￾ - yet - but they can allow you to control the electronics of a model just by touching a couple of metallic surface details - which don’t even move!

Hamster-Flage

FIRST - get a pet hamster. Yes, a real hamster. Then play gently with it until it gets used to being handled.

Now (assuming you've painted your model with the proper base color) put a small pool of acrylic paint the color you need the camouflage top layer to be. Encourage Squeaky to stand in the puddle, and then let him (or her) run happily over the model. Let him (or her) climb and putter. Every so often - when the paint on his (or her) little feet drys too much - put Squeaky back on the puddle, and then back on the model.

THERE! A nice simple way to get random camouflage on your models.

Oh, and don't forget to clean Squeaky's feet off afterwards.

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Post by Sparky » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:29 am

Forgot about these simple pulse lighting circuits from zog, they answer this question:

Is there a nice cheap n' easy way to have a fade effect on a circuit? I would think it could be done with capacitors. . .


<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/s ... _blink.jpg" target="_blank">Slow Pulsating Blink</A>

<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/s ... _wtran.jpg" target="_blank">slow Pulsating Blink usin' a transistor</A>
Last edited by Sparky on Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sparky » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:57 pm

By popular demand, here's the link to the 'gentle throbbing' LED circuit, AKA the triangle wave generator.
There's a good reference for a 'gentle pulsing' circuit from some computer moders in the UK, let me find the link. . .
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/throbber.html
new link
http://www.pcsilencioso.com/cpemma/throbber.html

Please let me know if this link dies, and I created a circuit diagram in Eagle as a back up.
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Post by Sparky » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:35 pm

Some more circuit ideas from Zog.

Some simple LED drivers, and help with transistor boosting for more LED driving power.
<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/t ... s_CMOS.jpg" target="_blank">Transistor Drivers and CMOS</A>

And some simple blink circuits and then one with a hook up that produces a simulated arc & spark output, weld on little mech diorama guys!
<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4 ... w_tooo.jpg" target="_blank">4060 How Too</A>

<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4 ... how_to.jpg" target="_blank">4060 Heart sizzle How To</A>
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4060 How Too question

Post by starmanmm » Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:42 pm

Just getting into lighting my kits. Now I guess I am not understanding what I am reading, but am I to understand that this 4060 configuration will some how simulate a sparking effect? I don't understand what is causing the effect? A rapidly flashing led? A real spark between wires?

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Post by Sparky » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:43 am

The idea is to build a circuit that will bilnk an LED with a random flash. I think this circuit allows noise to trip the threshold of the circuit so that the LED randomally flashes.
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Post by starmanmm » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:42 am

So, this sounds like an article I had read once about using a radio to randomly control the flashing of an led. It worked on the principal that if you tuned the radio onto a station that had talk radio, the various words and tone would affect the way the led would flash.

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Post by grayson72 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:23 pm

This is a great intro, however for someone that has zero knowledge of electrical circuitry there's still a lot of jargon in the how to section that only someone familiar circuits would know.

Example:
Bread board
Parts conductor
Resistor

Some basic definitions would be really helpful along with some pictures.

The circuit diagrams would be much more helpful to a beginner of there was a real example to look at sitting next to it.

My 2 cents.

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Post by Sparky » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:03 pm

If we setup such a pirmer it would probably be hosted on the main site, there are two or three on working with LEDs.

Most of the basics though can be found on the web and are written by guys who have been teaching electronics basics to new HAMs for more years than I have.

And looking at a hand wired circuit would be enough to scare off many newbis.

Here's a bread board with about 4 working circuits in some phase of testing.
http://www.kc6sye.com/images/images_01_ ... C01163.jpg


On that note, I think we can start creating an electronics basics tutorial. Again though it will be in the Ask Nigel section of the main site. Things we like to keep here are the speciallty circuits we have tried out and know look good.

I have a random arc welding circuit I need to add here for reference. It looks really good when you look at the light cast by the LED. Looking right at the LED makes it hard to see the effect. The eye gets saturated by the LEd and you cant see the subtle flickering that is going on.
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Post by grayson72 » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Sounds perfect, thanks for the clarification

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Post by Sparky » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:31 pm

Here are Zog's Bread Board useage and operation diagram:


http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/Bread_board.jpg
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Post by Sparky » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:56 pm

General Soldering tips:
A good fact sheet is up over here under solder tips:
http://www.n0ss.net/index_general.html

Its in PDf so you can download it for offline access and print it or keep it up on the screen whichever is easies.
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Post by Sparky » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:26 pm

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Post by Sparky » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:55 pm

here's a link to some trek lighting circuits from virtualight:
I'm updating my website to include all the different things at which I'm incompetent, and I decided to make a little tutorial on how I built the board for my PL TOS Enterprise.

The website is still being built so very little works except the tutorial. Click the link that says electronics schematics in the left colum.

http://www.virtualight.com/

Thanks,

Jennifer
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Post by en'til Zog » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:09 pm

The Jupiter II lighting circuit above is for the Movie version which has a 30 panel "fusion core" rather than the 32 panel one for TOS version. I'll work on that one, but the circuit for the C57-D can be modified using the 4017 outputs 0 to 7, 8 goes to reset, and you use 4 LEDs per output - using LEDs that need 2 volts or less.

HTH :oops:

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Post by MillenniumFalsehood » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:33 pm

Is there a way to put a blinking LED in a circuit without causing a significant or noticeable drop in voltage across the board, short of using two power sources?
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Post by tetsujin » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:18 pm

MillenniumFalsehood wrote:Is there a way to put a blinking LED in a circuit without causing a significant or noticeable drop in voltage across the board, short of using two power sources?
You shouldn't be seeing a reduction in voltage unless you're overtaxing your power supply... Put the blinking LED, with current-limiting resistor, in parallel with the rest of your circuit and it should be fine.
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Post by MillenniumFalsehood » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:15 am

Okay, thanks. That worked like a charm. :)
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Post by Sparky » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:55 am

Something new form Zog:

http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4 ... gram_L.jpg
a bit odd. Here's a way to multi-clock a 4017 chip (counts from 0 - 9) with a 4060 chip (self clocking with 12 divide by 2 outputs). Why? the several outputs from the 4060 change at different rates making the scanning outputs of the 4017 sequentially blink at first a fast rate, then a slow one, maybe stopping for a bit. Looks very computery, like a computer is acquiring data (quick changes), then scanning data (slower more deliberate blinks) then pondering (pausing). Try different outputs from the 4060 to different inputs of the 4017, or two outputs from the 4060 and one negative ( - ) connection to the 4017 R input.

This is one case where the LEDs being driven by the 4017 should probably NOT be in a numerical 0 - 9 order, but scrambled so they appear to be blinking 'at random'.

This is good for those that are setting up computer banks or cockpits with a lot of lights and buttons
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Post by Pat Amaral » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:48 am

This is cool! Thanks Sparky and Zog. I can see this being applied to the consoles and displays in the Seaview control room.


Groovy :8)
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Post by Sparky » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:39 am

The previous diagram has been updated to remove ambiguity.

Here's another one with more text descriptions:

http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/4060_how_tooo.jpg

Here's the some text as well:
Question?

Does it matter which of the three 4017 "In" inputs connects to the three 4060 outputs (4 and 7 and 10)?

Different combination of 4060 OUTPUTS to the three 4017 INPUTS will give different lighting effects. If things get too ‘odd’ just run NEGATIVE to the 4017 “ R “ INPUT (pinout # 15) but NOT any wire from the 4060, and experiment from there.

I'm still a little confusedicated about the 4060's Variable resistor--what its three pins connect to. You show it connects to "ck" and "out 1" in the diagram, (two connections). And the note also shows it connects to pin 11 and pin 10? (I don't see pin 11 in the diagram, because I'm a dummy). And pin 10 is one of the outputs going to the 4017 inputs right? Does pin 10 also connect to the VR?

The variable resistor has three wires coming out - the middle one connects to the ‘wiper’ inside the VR which moves along a stick of carbon (usually) inside the VR body which is what changes the resistance RELATIVE TO EACH END of the fixed resistance. The end pins connect to each end of the internal resistor.

Move the wiper one way, the resistance between it and one end goes UP and between it and the other end goes DOWN. So connect the 4060 to the middle pin and one end pin.


There’s two sets of numbers associated with the 4060 - the “pinout” numbers and the “What they Do” numbers.

The PINOUT numbers just number the pins sticking out of the little plastic block, with the TOP view, NOTCH to the LEFT, starting from the BOTTOM LEFT corner and pin - that’s PINOUT number ONE. Then you count COUNTERCLOCKWISE around to the right, then to the top row, still going COUNTERCLOCKWISE back to the left. On the 4060 NEGATIVE goes to pinout” 8 “ and “ 12 “, POSITIVE goes to pinout “ 16 “.

Now, there’s the “What They Do” numbers that have nothing to do with the physical location of the pins or pinouts. POSITIVE goes to the “ + “ pin and NEGATIVE goes to both the “ - “ and “ R “ “what they do” pins on the 4060.

On the 4017 there’s a “ 1/2 “ output - that just goes POSITIVE for half the 0-9 counts, and NEGATIVE for the other half. Like POS for 0-4 and NEG for 5-9. Or maybe the reverse.
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Post by rayra » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:19 pm

I'm not seeing anything about the most basic circuit layout, or any discussion of the fundamentals. Stuff like Ohm's Law, which a modeler can use to calculate the root-level requirements for lighting an LED, or simple circuit of LEDs, using any desired DC voltage.

A decent explanation and diagrams can be found at
http://www.techdose.com/electronics/Sim ... page1.html

But even there a fundamental aspect is left out.

The basic problem with lighting LEDs is matching the power supplied with the needs / operating limits of the chosen LEDs - or for that matter making the right choices in components in the first place, or understanding ahead of time which constraints you can pick and choose and which you are stuck with, so you can tailor your circuit design to cope with them.

LEDs have a desired voltage and amperage they'll operate. Different for different types of LEDs. Each discrete 'circuit' in your layout will need to accomodate this 'flavor' of power. So in addition to crafting your lighting solution by function (always on, some blinking, some separately controlled) you also have to group the components by power levels ('flavor', as I'm calling it).

Ohm's Law is the basic fomula for this, V=IR.
V=Voltage (voltage disparity, in terms of an LED lighting circuit)
I=Current(flow), typically expressed in whole Amps and in LED lighting, milliAmprs or mA. You'll find that rating on ea. LED you'll use.
R=Resistance, expressed in Ohms, the Omega symbol.

In laying out your desired lighting solution, you can effectively split your circuitry into separate parallel circuits, each running a different 'flavor', while keeping them all on the same power source, by using Ohm's law to calculate the different Resistor values needed to tone down the power feeding each lighting variety.
In this way you can size your power source for the peak power-hogging element in your lighting plan, and tamp it down for everything else.

This is just an option. You could use separate different-voltage power sources if you'd like. Or if internal space requirements drive different choices. This is also impacted by whether you want your lighting system totally contained within the model or will be incorporating the (usually bulky) power source or method into a display base or remotely located location.

Anyway, back to Ohm's Law, V=IR. The goal is figuring out what level of Resistor you need. For this explanation, I'm picking a 9V battey and a 'superbright' LED running at 3.2V and drawing 20mA of current.
To solve for V, you take the voltage of your power source and subtract the voltage rating of the LEDs (or other items) on your circuit. 9-3.2 in this case. 5.8V, which is how much excess voltage we have to get rid of / block / 'Resist'.
From the LED rating we know the desired current is 20mA. Recall that Ohm's Law uses whole Amps, so converting 20mA - milli, thousand - we get 0.02 Amps. Continuing to solve the equation, we divide 5.8V by 0.02A. For these purposes we ignore the V and A and it's a straight number crunch. The result is 290. Which in this equation is the Ohms value, 290 Ohms, which is the rating of the desired Resistor to tamp down our chosen power supply to light that single superbright LED.

Resistors come in a huge variety of ratings over an extremely wide range. But even so you aren't likely to find a perfect match. That's ok. Keep in mind that for the most part these devices have operating ranges. And keep in mind which end of the range you are working from, when picking your values for solving equations or sourcing components. In the above example I went with the low end of the voltage range for the LED. And the current figure is essentially a minimum. There's ~10% worth of wiggle room upward in the voltage rating, and likewise a similar bit of additional current that can be applied to the LED. If you use a little LOWER resistor rating you'll hit the LED with a bit MORE power. And vice versa.
Run the equation with both min and max voltage ratings to get an idea of the range of resistance you should emply, then pick whatever rating works. In general, the more towards the low end you stay, the longer the LEDs and your battery should last. A little low in the supplied power and you'll get a dim light. A good bit low and it'll fail to light at all. A little much, it might burn brighter. Too much, it might burn brighter for a very short amount of time.

I just pulled that out of the cobwebs of my mind, after digging up that web page. It's been several years since I crafted a circuit to light a model or prop, so I'm rusty. If I got something wrong I'm sure someone will correct me and I'll check back to edit this post.

And there are several other variables and options as well, depending on your lighting plan.
Multiple LEDs can be run on a single branch circuit, as long as their combined amperage is factored in.
There are differences in wiring LEDs in serial vs parallel fashion, likewise in the layouts of the circuits themselves.
With a little cleverness and luck, you can size your power supply sufficiently and run your LEDs in serial fashion and manage to light things without a resistor. But your lighting circuit is doomed if one of the LEDs burns out. Witing in parallel has far greater fault tolerance. Keep that in mind if you are lighting something you can't take apart.
There are also many other electronic components that can help you customize your circuit layouts, like all the timing and programmable chips discussed in these fixed topics.

One basic element is a Diode, which acts as a sort of one-way gate for electricity. When I built my lighted Star Destroyer kit, I wanted the entire lighting packaged to be internal to the kit, and to be removeable / serviceable for a battery change or LED replacement. But I also wanted two (overlapping) functional circuits. One with all the fiber lit and one with fiber AND the engines lit. Using a single pole, double throw switch (ON-OFF-ON) and a diode, I was able to feed both options and control them with a single switch placement. Without the diode, the wire branching to feed both sets of lights would 'backfeed' and energize both circuits in both switch positions. Failure.
Anyway, without the diode it would have required two switches each with an isolated circuit to control things. And it was hard enough hiding one switch in plain sight on that small kit.

Here's a simple diagram of that circuit. The LEDs are wired in parallel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... iagram.jpg

And here's a few of my solution. The engine backplane became the only readily removeable structure in my build. I used sleeved brass tubing as the retention and alignment method, with a bit of a friction fit doing the job. I laid out and bundled all the fiber into an upper and lower hull halves arrangement, with each half terminating in a bundle that I put thru a sectioned half of a ping pong ball, which I attempted to make a bit reflective, while coating it to block light seepage. I set up such a 'collector' in both the top and bottom halves. Then on the removeable engine / lighting module, I positioned a 'gang plank' of sorts to put the pair of fiber LEDs into position where they would shine on their respective bundles to best effect.
In this way my lit Star Destroyer could sit on a custom base supported by nothing but clear plex rods. No metal or blacked out tubing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... amera1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... amera2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... ytying.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... sition.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... ile400.jpg
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Post by rayra » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:48 am

earlier today I picked up a few components, working on some lighting projects myself.
I tidied up my old LED related stuff to see what I was missing, vs what I wanted to try. I also dug out my breadboard.
So this evening I set about testing some loose LEDs to ID them, so I set up a sort of scale tester. I spaced out all variety of resistors I had, lowest rated value to highest, and energized the board. Then I worked my way thru the highest resister to lowest, watching to see where the unknown LEDs first got the brightest. Then from that figuring a rough voltage estimation on the LEDs.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... EDohm1.jpg


Once I was done with that I plugged in a variety of known LEDs just for show. All the disparate resistor circuits are essentially in parallel. And the few that have multiple LEDs running off them, the LEDs are also in parallel on that individual resistor. All running off a single 9V.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/r ... EDohm2.jpg

A breadboard is a handy thing to have, or at least get a dozen or so tiny alligator clips. That way you can at least clamp the various components together to test drive your configurations and the components in them.

It's also a handy trick to cull an LEDs or small connector plugs from any old computer equipment you're discarding. The bits come in handy sometimes.
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Post by starmanmm » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:32 am

Never learned how to use a breadboard :oops: .... I do my testing using the alligator clips and see what works.
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Post by severedblue » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:56 am

Sparky wrote:Some more circuit ideas from Zog.

Some simple LED drivers, and help with transistor boosting for more LED driving power.
<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/t ... s_CMOS.jpg" target="_blank">Transistor Drivers and CMOS</A>
Going through all of Zog's circuits on my breadboard here, most excellent.

Does anyone have any idea on what values for the resistor / capacitor in the 4011 NAND configurations in this diagram? I take it the values are similar to what is needed to get the 4060 going....

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Post by severedblue » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:51 pm

severedblue wrote:
Sparky wrote:Some more circuit ideas from Zog.

Some simple LED drivers, and help with transistor boosting for more LED driving power.
<A HREF="http://www.kc6sye.com/images/circuits/t ... s_CMOS.jpg" target="_blank">Transistor Drivers and CMOS</A>
Going through all of Zog's circuits on my breadboard here, most excellent.

Does anyone have any idea on what values for the resistor / capacitor in the 4011 NAND configurations in this diagram? I take it the values are similar to what is needed to get the 4060 going....
Update on this, I couldn't get it (the top left design, 4011B NAND as a low power blinkie) working,

I tried a 1uF aluminium electrolytic cap , as well as a .1uF ceramic cap, but couldn't get it to light
I used a variable resistor through the full wiper range

Finally, I checked my NAND gate was working against the 4060 set up, which it was. Without the values of the resistor and capacitor, it'll be difficult to proceed further (I understand RC calculations, but am not entirely sure of the purpose of the design so cannot do an educated guess of the resistor values)

I am definitely using a 9V supply

I'm not asking for help here, just leaving this note should anyone else attempt that design. I'm dismantling that design from my breadboard now.

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Post by Sparky » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:40 am

in addition to ohm's law:
E=I*R
(also sometimes written as V=I*R)
don't forget
PIE
P = I*E
E is electromotive force and is measured in Volts
P is power and is measure in Watts
I is current and is measured in Amps
R is resistance and is measured in Ohms

The rest of Direct Current (DC) ohm's laws has to do with the next steps in circuits.

Like parallel loops and series loops.
The basics are this:
Voltage across parallel loops is equal, current is additive (can be different for each loop though)

Voltage in series loops is cumulative (can be different for each element), but current is constant.
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Post by Matt1982 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:48 am

Here is a navigation lights, strobe lights, rotation effect circuit for an Enterprise model

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33437675/enterprisediagram.pdf

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