Gloss & Dull coats

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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Post by TER-OR » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:17 pm

You might be in for some quality buffing time with a very fine pad and water, Father Rob. Been there...more than once.

Too thick is SO easy to do with clear coats. Be super careful.
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Post by Glorfindel » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:01 am

I am having the hardest time finding acrylic flat clear coat finishes . Normally I go with the Tamiya but my LHS hasn't had it, or the Polly Scale which I would gladly try, in months. I really try to shop locally and support the brick and mortar guys. I came across the Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear Flat while researching and bounced an e-mail off Krylon in regards to using this product over acrylic paints and decals for modelling for which I haven't gotten a response back yet. Has anybody here used this stuff before in this magnitude?
I would most definitely decant so I could AB the product on. Comments please.
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Post by Vetter » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:35 pm

I'm not sure if it's the same thing but I use Krylon Matte Finish 1311. It goes down decently and looks ok. I've used it on various spray can paints, model master and craft paint without any problems. I don't like the Krylon gloss though, it doesn't go down smooth.

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Post by tmajor » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:16 pm

I've used a product from Japan called Mr. Top Coat. It came in a rattle can which I decanted and airbrushed. It is water based and goes down pretty flat. The trade off is the can is pretty small and while not excessively expensive it isn't cheap either.

I also recently bought some Alclad Klear Kote Flat. It was about $10 for 4 floz, so again not exactly cheap. It's also lacquer based, which is a shame, but it is the best flat coat I've tried so far. It produced a really nice flat finish and also really helped hide the decal edges. I applied it over Tamiya acrylics with no problem at all.

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Post by Glorfindel » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:47 pm

OK, got a response from Krylon. They said that the "Short Cuts" line of sprays would be fine for styrene. They have a clear coat but only in "Gloss" form. Nothing in a flat.
http://www.krylon.com/products/short_cu ... ol_paints/
This is the Matte Finish spray Vetter is speaking of.
http://www.krylon.com/products/matte_finish/
I don't know. Think maybe I'll keep hitting the bricks until I find what I'm looking for.
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Post by TER-OR » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:17 pm

If you are airbrushing, there are great acrylic choices. You will need to practice, though, they do not always behave as the lacquer based products do. They are far more gentle to the base though.
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Post by Glorfindel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:36 pm

Ter I managed to pick up a few bottles of MM Acryl Flat Clear from my LHS. I asked him what he had in lieu of Tamiya in acrylic and he had the Model Masters. What should I expect, look out for, when AB the clear?
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Post by crowe-t » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:01 pm

I'll be using Testors Model Master Acryl clear(flat & Semi-gloss) to clear coat.

I tested spraying some on a spare model and in some areas where it built up it has a very slight yellow tone. I also noticed this if I brush it on.

Has anyone seen this happen?

Does it need to be thinned a lot and sprayed in very light coats to keep it clear?

Any help will be appreciated.

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Post by Glorfindel » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:29 pm

Tamiya Flat Base X-21, I know it's used to dull down paint. It can actually flaten out some Tamiya Gloss colors pretty well too. I'm just wondering if anyone has ever used it as a final flat coat to finish off their model? Can this be used like MM Flat Clear Acryl?
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Post by Kylwell » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23 pm

It can, but it takes a lot.

As a note, is Tamiya flat black isn't feeling flat enough, add some of that. Super flat. Dead flat. So flat is makes Kansas look like Colorado.
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Post by Glorfindel » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Just found out by some guys at SMA that you can use various amounts of Tamiya Flat mixed with Future and get great results. Scott from Elm City Hobbies uses this recipe.
1 part flat base to 3 parts Future = very flat
1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat
1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin

In case peeps are wondering.
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Post by Dobber » Tue May 28, 2013 8:06 am

Years ago I tried using the Tamiya flat base on a model and it just frosted the whole thing. So my question is what am I supposed to use to get a gloss or flat coat with these bottled acrylics? I am so dismayed that Tamiya has discontinued their TS-80 and TS-13 spray clears and I have no idea what to use now. I use to use MM flat and gloss sprays but am afraid of yellowing which happened on 2 different Refit enterprise builds....and this was before the affordable R2 kit came out....I am talking about the more expensive resin kits. It just started in a small spot like there was a water stain or something about a week or so after it was finished and then just spread all over the model. Acreation decals were used. I have become very gun shy with large decals and clear coats now sow any help or advice is VERY welcome.

Please help!

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Post by Kylwell » Tue May 28, 2013 11:19 am

Tamiya Flat Base is made to be added to a gloss paint for a flat finish, It is not made to be used alone.

I use Testors acrylic matte paint or JW Etc's matt varnish. Both are UV stable and my years of using the Testors I have yet to see any yellowing.
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Post by SJM » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:49 am

They discontinued TS13? Weird, I just bought one!

Anyway, is TS 80 flat coat the only Tamiya spray flat coat? I'm looking for a product that will flatten my TS 13 gloss coat on my model that isn't lacquer based as I used Tamiya acrylic colours on my model..

Thanks!
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Post by SJM » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:50 am

DP
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Post by SJM » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:58 pm

Still needing some advice on this one, I now have two models in need of a dull coat.

:shock:
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Post by Lord Darth Beavis » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:18 am

Future with Tamiya flat base, or Microscale flat. I am partial to the Microscale option. It lays down dead flat.
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Post by crowe-t » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:14 pm

Lord Darth Beavis wrote:Future with Tamiya flat base, or Microscale flat. I am partial to the Microscale option. It lays down dead flat.
Can Microscale Flat be sprayed through an airbrush? How does it hold up, after it's cured, to Windex? Usually acrylics that won't budge when Windex is sprayed on them are very tough.

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Post by Kylwell » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:28 pm

I've never met an acrylic paint that can withstand ammonia based Windex.
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Post by crowe-t » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:31 pm

Kylwell wrote:I've never met an acrylic paint that can withstand ammonia based Windex.
Testors MM Acryl and Polly Scale acylic paints can! Tamiya acrylics just wash right off with Windex but Testors Acryl and Polly Scale stand right up to it and don't budge.

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Post by Kylwell » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:41 pm

crowe-t wrote:
Kylwell wrote:I've never met an acrylic paint that can withstand ammonia based Windex.
Testors MM Acryl and Polly Scale acylic paints can! Tamiya acrylics just wash right off with Windex but Testors Acryl and Polly Scale stand right up to it and don't budge.
Are you sure you're using Windex with ammonia? It's what we use to clean airbrushes @ Make & Takes and all we use there are MM acrylics.
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Post by crowe-t » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:08 pm

Kylwell wrote:
crowe-t wrote:
Kylwell wrote:I've never met an acrylic paint that can withstand ammonia based Windex.
Testors MM Acryl and Polly Scale acylic paints can! Tamiya acrylics just wash right off with Windex but Testors Acryl and Polly Scale stand right up to it and don't budge.
Are you sure you're using Windex with ammonia? It's what we use to clean airbrushes @ Make & Takes and all we use there are MM acrylics.
Yep, that's the Windex I use. I use it to clean the airbrush when spraying Testors Acryl, but if I let the Acryl sit in the brush too long I have to use lacquer thinner.

I have tested spraying Windex with ammonia over cured Acryl and it doesn't budge or soften. I haven't left it on for hours but have let it sit for several minutes and it wipes off and doesn't harm the paint.

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Post by Lord Darth Beavis » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:35 am

crowe-t wrote:
Lord Darth Beavis wrote:Future with Tamiya flat base, or Microscale flat. I am partial to the Microscale option. It lays down dead flat.
Can Microscale Flat be sprayed through an airbrush? How does it hold up, after it's cured, to Windex? Usually acrylics that won't budge when Windex is sprayed on them are very tough.
It airbrushes beautifully. Lays down dead-flat. I dunno about the Windex test, though.
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Post by SJM » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:05 am

In between airbrushes at the moment, going to get a can of Krylon acrylic matte to try on a test part.
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Post by Captain Riker » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Lord Darth Beavis wrote:Future with Tamiya flat base, or Microscale flat. I am partial to the Microscale option. It lays down dead flat.
Can you give me an idea of the ratio of one to the other? I want to use future to dull coat my refit, but I'm not sure how much flat base to add.

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Post by Saturn » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:25 am

from "The Complete Future" @ Swanny Models:

1 part flat base to 3 parts Future = very flat
1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat
1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin

Only mix what's needed, and discard the unused portion.
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Post by Captain Riker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:52 am

Thanks. Love Sawnny's site.

Also: Duh, Glorfindel posted the ratios a few posts above. :/

The warning that "the model may turn white if the ratio is off" scares me a little. I think i'll test it out with a 10:1 ratio first.

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Post by Captain Riker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:06 pm

A related question:

I've read that dull coats can frost clear parts. I've not had much experiance with many clear parts but there are quite a few on the 350 refit. I applied pure Future over the entire kit with no issues. Would a "flattened" future (with flat base mixed in) affect any clear parts? I'd probably mask off the nacelles and deflector to keep them shiny, but windows wouldn't be masked again.

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Post by Kylwell » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:16 pm

Think about it for a sec... how does a matte clear coat work?
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Post by Saturn » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:23 pm

Captain Riker wrote: The warning that "the model may turn white if the ratio is off" scares me a little. I think i'll test it out with a 10:1 ratio first.
I've had that happen, but with a batch of Flattened Future that wasn't fresh, from a bottle that's been sitting for more than a few months. Which is why I only mix as needed and don't re-use the remiander. After all, Future and Tamiya Flat Base are cheap compared to a white-blasted model. And I stay closer to 1:7 ratio than 1:3- which is absolutely lusterless; something you may want on a tank or AFV, but not on a refit.

And yes, I would mask all clear parts, even the dozens of windows a refit has. I'd worry about the window becoming slightly more opaque if unmasked.
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