Basics. Colors. Types of paint

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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chiver
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Post by chiver » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Thanks, I figured it was called pain thinners. I didn't know it would take an expert to clarify that for me. And I learned using mm enamel, that it's about a 1:1 ratio with about 30 psi. Now i don't I ow if I was doing something wrong or if it's the way the air brush works but she. I held the brush about 10 inches away it would put paint on the model but i couldnt realy see it making any difference. It would take about 30 coats I figure so I had to hold it about 5 inches away but it did t have a very wide coverage area. It was about a 1inch line
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Post by Kylwell » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:00 pm

4 to 8 inches is normal. Otherwise you get a lot of overspray and waste paint. Less paint flow, the closer you work. When running a detail brush @ 3 psi I'm working closer than an inch. With just about any paint I start thinning 50/50 or a 1:1 ratio of paint to thinner. Some need more (Vallejo), some less.
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Post by Victor3 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:01 pm

Having a similar problem that Crikerat mentioned on the previous page.

I had painted a kit using Tamiya spray lacquer - insignia white. Then painted Tamiya dark yellow over it. I did have some overspray & intended to paint insignia white over it. Both layers were perfectly cured. But when I painted the white over the dark yellow, the paints mixed, leaving a semi-gloss swirl of light tan.

How can I fix this issue? Do I need to coat the model in Future before attempting further touch-up?

Thanks for the help in advance, sorry if this ain't the right spot.

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Post by Kylwell » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:16 pm

Lacquers are made to reactivate. You can take a bottle of 20 y/o dried up lacquer, add thinner to it and it'll come back to life. I've done it many times (which means never throw out a dried bottle of lacquer based paint).

So yes, a coat of acrylic will help seal the one layer from the next.
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Post by Victor3 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:35 pm

Thanks for tip, I'll try it this week!

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Post by Banshee1000 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:25 pm

What is the best acrylic to use for airbrushing metallic colors? The Tamiya is not fine enough and I'm having difficulty with Vallejo (I don't have access to the Air Color)in not giving me good solid coverage when thinned. I'm going to test the Vallejo tonight using isopropyl alcohol.

Thanks for your help.
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Post by Kylwell » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:51 pm

The best is Alclad II but it's a lacquer and stinks to high heaven. The best acrylic I've seen is Hawkeye's Hobbies but I just found out they're shutting down all business. Which leaves Vallejo's Liquid Gold a hard to find paint that has a very fine pigment and nice shine but little reflectivity. This comes pre thinned but can still be a bit harsh on spraying.

When thinning standard Vallejo hobby paints use either distilled water or their thinner. Anything else just seems to make a mess.
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Banshee1000
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Post by Banshee1000 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:00 pm

Kylwell wrote:The best is Alclad II but it's a lacquer and stinks to high heaven. The best acrylic I've seen is Hawkeye's Hobbies but I just found out they're shutting down all business. Which leaves Vallejo's Liquid Gold a hard to find paint that has a very fine pigment and nice shine but little reflectivity. This comes pre thinned but can still be a bit harsh on spraying.

When thinning standard Vallejo hobby paints use either distilled water or their thinner. Anything else just seems to make a mess.
Thank you. This is for the Sol Angel Rebirth figure, and an acrylic works best for the effect. The Tamiya black base for the metallic areas went down perfectly, but the Tamiya Aluminum had unrealistically large pigment. The Vallejo with their thinner using silver didn't seem opaque enough. I'm testing these metal finish paints an old kit, thank goodness.
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Post by Kylwell » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:38 pm

I tend to go Alclad underneath, everything else on top when I need a fade from metal to something else.

Yes, the Tamiya metallics have horribly large flake sizes. Not quite bass boat but getting there. I've also used Testors Model Master Metalizers to good effect but they can be a bit fragile.
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Post by caisson2delta » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:56 am

I don't know if this will help you or not, but have you tried to use any of the Duplicolor paints? They have acrylic spray lacquers in a multitude of metallic sheens and colors. I was at a local auto parts store when I spotted these and didn't realize the range of colors that they had. I was purchasing a can for something entirely non model related and really liked the look of the color I used and decided to try it on an old kit to see if it would hold up and seems to be okay. I may try some of these paints in the future on some of my Bare Metal aircraft kits.

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Post by CarlGo » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:17 pm

Kind of a noob question, but what exactly is the difference between primer and regular paints? Like, is there a difference between a grey primer and regular grey paint?

Also, I just primed a model a couple of days ago with Model Master primer, and it still has a very slight stickiness to it, is that normal?
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Post by Gerry » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:40 am

Primer contains adhesives to bond with the surface and the paint better than plain paint.

If it's still tacky it could be a number of reasons.
1: It could be it was too humid when you painted and hasn't dried yet.
2: You put it on way too thick {I do that a lot from spray cans}
3: Did you paint over vinyl? It's weird but over some vinyls {usually softer ones} enamel simply will not dry. Last time I did that I brushed it with corn starch to dry the surface.
4: other reasons I don't know about.
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Post by seam-filler » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:50 am

Gerry wrote:Primer contains adhesives to bond with the surface and the paint better than plain paint.

If it's still tacky it could be a number of reasons.
1: It could be it was too humid when you painted and hasn't dried yet.
2: You put it on way too thick {I do that a lot from spray cans}
3: Did you paint over vinyl? It's weird but over some vinyls {usually softer ones} enamel simply will not dry. Last time I did that I brushed it with corn starch to dry the surface.
4: other reasons I don't know about.
5. It could be you didn't shake it for long enough - pigment hasn't miced with the medium, so you get a lot of medium on the model and little pigment.
6. The can may be too old or too depleted - again pigment won't mix properly with the medium.
7. Spraying too close - the medium is far too wet when it reaches the model surface.
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Post by CarlGo » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:21 am

Hmmm, looking at the Testors website, it looks like what I used was actually the Grey Primer Acryl, which my LHS apparently places amongst the enamels to confuse poor hapless fools...

Additional info that I probably should have mentioned in the first place :P :

- I was painting using brushes over resin. (it's a pretty small model).

- I had previously allowed the resin pieces to soak for 2-3 days in water mixed with Comet cleanser. Then they were scrubbed, rinsed and allowed to dry for a day.

I suppose it's possible I brushed it on too thick or too quickly... I also thinned it out with a few ml of varsol, could that have done something?
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Post by Kylwell » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:23 am

The paint thinner may have reacted with the paint to make a mess and will never fully cure. Had some old Revel acrylic paints that did this on their own way back when.

I'd suggest using Testors acrylic thinner or Tamiya's.
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Post by CarlGo » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:38 pm

Ahh, I see. I'll clean the parts off and try priming it again with legit thinner instead of hardware store varsol, then. :P

Thanks!
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Post by CarlGo » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:11 pm

Man, Testors website is being a pain. Here's the actual (enamel!!!) primer I used:

http://www.testors.com/product/0/2737/_ ... oz._Bottle

Anyhoo, I got home tonight and whaddya know, the primer dried finally. Looks like I just needed to kvetch about it on the internet. :D
Still, I'm glad I picked up legit paint thinner regardless.
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Post by CarlGo » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Another question: I'm brushing on a coat of Tamyia paint and for whatever reason, brushing over the same area twice rips up the paint and turns it into a clumpy mess. The only way i can get a somewhat even coat is if I start off with like a ton of paint on the brush. Does anybody else get that?
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:38 pm

Tamiya is one of the worse for brush painting. Doesn't level well and dries very quickly which makes it clumpy.
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Post by CarlGo » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:50 pm

Ah, I thought I was just doing it wrong. :P

I guess the quick-drying qualities make it better for airbrushing then?
What's a good brand for brushing on a base coat for a fairly small model then?
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:56 pm

Vallejo if you can find it. Brush paints very nicely.
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Post by admiralcag » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:55 am

Kylwell wrote:Tamiya is one of the worse for brush painting. Doesn't level well and dries very quickly which makes it clumpy.
Actually, you have to know how to thin it properly. This technique works like a champ! Used it for detail painting on my Monkeemobile blower, which Kylwell saw right after I painted it.

http://zerobxu.wordpress.com/2008/03/10 ... -acrylics/

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Regarding to the surface finishing

Post by jevnydaniel » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:26 am

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Post by CarlGo » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:47 pm

admiralcag wrote:
Kylwell wrote:Tamiya is one of the worse for brush painting. Doesn't level well and dries very quickly which makes it clumpy.
Actually, you have to know how to thin it properly. This technique works like a champ! Used it for detail painting on my Monkeemobile blower, which Kylwell saw right after I painted it.

http://zerobxu.wordpress.com/2008/03/10 ... -acrylics/

Vern
Thanks for the link, it's exactly what I was looking for!
Could I use that type of alcohol to clean off the clumpy coat of paint that's already on the model? Like if I soaked the parts in the alcohol, could I wipe off the paint?
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Post by admiralcag » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:13 pm

CarlGo wrote:Thanks for the link, it's exactly what I was looking for!
Could I use that type of alcohol to clean off the clumpy coat of paint that's already on the model? Like if I soaked the parts in the alcohol, could I wipe off the paint?
You're welcome. I don't think soaking in alcohol will allow you to remove the paint. I could be wrong. I use Purple Power to strip paint.

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Post by Kylwell » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:59 pm

IF it's acrylic go with Windex with ammonia.
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CarlGo
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Post by CarlGo » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:26 pm

admiralcag wrote:
CarlGo wrote:Thanks for the link, it's exactly what I was looking for!
Could I use that type of alcohol to clean off the clumpy coat of paint that's already on the model? Like if I soaked the parts in the alcohol, could I wipe off the paint?
You're welcome. I don't think soaking in alcohol will allow you to remove the paint. I could be wrong. I use Purple Power to strip paint.

Vern
I tried the alcohol soak and the acrylic paint came off like a breeze. :) I think if I had been gentler wiping it off I could have even salvaged the enamel primer coat. Alas I had to clean out some greebled sections with a toothbrush and ended up scrubbing off the primer.
Anyhow, models are all re-primed and I'm ready to give the alcohol thinning technique a shot this week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
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Post by publiusr » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:57 pm

This may be the breakthrough for modelmaking:

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Print ... s_999.html

Forget you, labor intensive "Raytheon-effect" masks or clumsy wires.

"If we combine our approach with 3D printing, we can print three-dimensional objects that display information and are touch-sensitive"

More http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/10/japane ... -that.html

Metalized bubbles
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/library/ ... 4Crowe.pdf
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/devon-crowe/17/1b1/3a6

Model makers! Printable electronics: http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/11/memris ... s-for.html
http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/11/3d-pri ... tting.html

Cheap color for models? http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Hands ... s_999.html
Last edited by publiusr on Fri May 20, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by publiusr » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:39 pm

I found this interesting. You may not even have to have paint or decals:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index ... msg1622927

State of the art has apparently advanced to the point where you can fairly accurately model decal application to irregular shapes. This technique was apparently presented at SIGGRAPH 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUhPrAqiY0

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