Advanced. Weathering. Pastels

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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Tony Agustin
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Post by Tony Agustin » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:17 pm

Excellent tips but.....


....where the hell did he learn to hold an air-brush like that? I've never seen that kind of an airbrush holding technique before.

Does he write that way too? ;D

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Lt. Z0mBe
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Re: Thanks !!

Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:17 am

justcrash wrote:
Lt. Z0mBe wrote:
dkeets wrote:That is a perfect explanation, thanks Zombe.

What brand of pastel chalk do you use and is there an online source for it? I went to a couple art supply stores and all they carry are the oil-based pastels and I'm pretty sure these won't work for this technique.
I have a full artist's set of "Alphacolor" brand pastels. I think they were made by a company called WC. But, it's hard to say since this set is about 25 or 30 years old. Seriously. They last forever.

But yes, you, Ter, and kyl are right. Don't use the oil pastels. They won't mix well.

In my earlier post, I meant to say I grind with a paintbrush handle, not just the brush itself. I do this in the palette like an old-fashioned mortar and pestil. Make sense?

I was just at Michaels today, and I saw some of the chalk pastels, but I didn't pay attention to the price, no pun intended.

But, when you get it right, and it's easy, you'll never go back to anything petroleum-based again. :)

I hope this helps.

Z0mBe
Zombe, have you (or for that matter anyone) used this technique for doing windows and such? I ask because if I can eliminate using oils all together , I will! :D
DO you mean for replicating small openings such as starship windows? If so, I've not done it for that purpose explicitly. But, I don't build capital ships. However, it DOES work nicely for rivet detail. I would think it would work for other small indentations like starship windows in small scales. You may need to make your wash strong if it's a light color, or repeat it many times.

I hope this helps.

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Sluis Van Shipyards
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Post by Sluis Van Shipyards » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:52 pm

TER-OR wrote:Very light - as in spray some Dullcoat lacquer in the air and move the piece thru the mist....

...then do as little as possible to the model.
That seriously works?! I always completely coated the model with Dullcote after pastels.

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:55 pm

Sluis Van Shipyards wrote:
TER-OR wrote:Very light - as in spray some Dullcoat lacquer in the air and move the piece thru the mist....

...then do as little as possible to the model.
That seriously works?! I always completely coated the model with Dullcote after pastels.
Yes. If you completely "wet coat" coat pastels, they will go from a subtle shading to a "rained-on-dust" look. The sequence should go
glosscoat-flatcoat-pastels-dusting. You can try several light coats.

Just mist, and fly the craft through the mist. But, you MUST make the appropriate "whoosh" sound as you go. :lol: I do.

Try an experiment with it sometime and compare them side-by-side. You'll be shocked at the difference.

Kenny

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Sluis Van Shipyards
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Post by Sluis Van Shipyards » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:07 am

Just mist, and fly the craft through the mist. But, you MUST make the appropriate "whoosh" sound as you go. I do.
Ok I'll remember that part. :lol:

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Post by TER-OR » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:41 pm

Hmm, I always make the bbbbbb whistle like the Jetsons car.

It should apply enough to keep the pastels in place - but they won't put up with too much damage. Be careful handling it.
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mech
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Post by mech » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:43 pm

I have just starting using the pastels for weathering. Hell for that matter I just started weathering. I have not tried a wash yet, will try that soon though.

Anyhow, my question, I have been weathering directly to the gloss coat and have had reasonable results. Does this make a difference? Will the weathering look better if applied over the dull coat?

Oh, I stumbled on the the shwooosh dusting method completely by accident. (noises and all) :D

j

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:47 pm

Pastels stick better to a dull coat, but be warned, if you're looking to gloss coat it afterwards some pastels get darker, other disapear.
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mech
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Post by mech » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:03 pm

Thanks kylwell. It actually never occurred to me to apply pastels to a "bare" model. As in not gloss coated. My though was that it may "bond" (not the right word) to the paints, making corrections near impossible.
I did have some of the lighter shades of grey and tan fade out on my PL TOS E when the second sealing gloss coat was applied. :(
The overall result was okay, but there was alot more subtle weathering before...

j

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SpaceDuck
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Post by SpaceDuck » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:11 pm

Hi Y'all,

I'm familiar with chalks and have used them for years but just picked up my first set of the ,'Tamiya Weathering Master' stuff. I've read what's been posted here and of course I'll do some experimenting before committing them to a model but I thought I'd ask if anyone can share further experiences, tricks or opinions about them before I crack em open?

Thanks in advance! :D
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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:22 pm

When using two or more pastels for your project, would it be better to pastel your first color and then seal it with dull coat or do it all?

Reason why I asked is that when using more than one shade of pastels you may want to save what you have done before continuing to the next shade.

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:41 pm

All depends on what type of layering you want. I usually do most my pastel work then seal it. Sometimes some last little touch-ups after all has been sealed.
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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:53 pm

Figured on doing the dark first, seal then the light pastels and seal.

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gg_duce
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Post by gg_duce » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:03 pm

I always used my paint thinner to weather. I've used it on every SW ship I've done since I was a kid.
The thinner is usually a dark color (since I'm always cleaning greys, black, and silver) and over time this goop forms at the bottom of the bottle.
A few swipes makes everything dirty, it goes into recesses, and the grime leave little flecks of crud here and there.
Plus, if it goes on too dark, I just make a clean swipe with just thinner and no goop.
I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this.

Or is it just me?
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Post by littleyoda99 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:11 pm

ok so I see the Floquil flow aid ... and for the life of me cannot find it anywhere...

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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:46 pm

Do a google search for Liquitex Flow-Aid Flow Enhancer and you will find someone that sells it.

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Post by TER-OR » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:56 pm

Liquitex products are available at Michaels, Hobby Lobby and other craft or art stores. You want Flo-Aid - but buy some Slo-Dri too - that's useful stuff.
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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:09 pm

Ter-or, would this be a good time to state what both Flo-Aid and Sol-Dri would be used for?

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Post by TER-OR » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:47 pm

Mostly in the painting section - Flo-Aid is a surfactant and helps the paint or other liquid spread along a surface. Slo-Dri will retard the drying of a liquid. This is best used in hand-brushing where you don't want the paint to dry quickly - so you can blend it.

These are for acrylic paints, not oil or enamel.
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Post by Squall67584 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:34 pm

So after doing the pastel-liquid wash, you seal it by flying it through misted sealer, or was that step only used if you brushed on dry pastel chalk?

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Post by TER-OR » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:19 pm

You shouldn't need to overcoat pastels liquid wash if you did the panel lines, but remember there's nothing really holding them on the model. Overcoating will give you better durability - and even out the sheen.
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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:42 am

While looking up information on French Chalk (Freedom Chalk?) I ran across this product: http://www.meininger.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=6553

Looks like a pastel wash in a pen.

More info here.
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elend
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Post by elend » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:32 pm

Ah, I do have one of these here. Shops often use those to paint on Glass or signs in general. It's like fluid chalk in a marker. It dries out completely flat, too. Dunno if this will be of good use for scale modelers, though.

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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:05 pm

What is the best way to apply pastels?

Q Tips.... foam brush.... paint brush?

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elend
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Post by elend » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:40 pm

I once tried it the simple way: I mixed the pastels with water and added them to the model. Once dry you can feather / soften the edges with a Q-Tip.

Also bear in mind, that pastels work best on matte coats.

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:02 pm

Unless you're doing a pastel wash in which case gloss is better.

I apply pastels with anything from a micro-brush to a great big poofy thing. All depends on what effect you're going for.
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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:29 pm

Not going for the wash... and yes.... the kit (D7) has been sealed with dull coat.

Was looking to dirty it up a bit.... and was looking for the best way to apply the pastels.

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:44 pm

For small streaks I use either a micro brush, a fine paint brush or a fine silicon clay shaper. Dab a bit of pastel powder on then work it back for a streak.

Panel lines & what can be accentuated with a soft foam brush or cat's tongue paint brush. Use a darker gray to gently work it around the panel lines.
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Lt. Z0mBe
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:53 pm

Kylwell wrote:For small streaks I use either a micro brush, a fine paint brush or a fine silicon clay shaper. Dab a bit of pastel powder on then work it back for a streak.

Panel lines & what can be accentuated with a soft foam brush or cat's tongue paint brush. Use a darker gray to gently work it around the panel lines.
[Raises Hand] What's a "cat's tongue" paint brush, Robb? [/Raises Hand]

I'm very much the uninitiate when it comes to art terms outside of the hobby, I'm afraid.

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:
Kylwell wrote:For small streaks I use either a micro brush, a fine paint brush or a fine silicon clay shaper. Dab a bit of pastel powder on then work it back for a streak.

Panel lines & what can be accentuated with a soft foam brush or cat's tongue paint brush. Use a darker gray to gently work it around the panel lines.
[Raises Hand] What's a "cat's tongue" paint brush, Robb? [/Raises Hand]

I'm very much the uninitiate when it comes to art terms outside of the hobby, I'm afraid.

](*,)

Kenny
Also known as a Filbert.
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