Basics. Weathering. Washes

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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Post by kosherbacon » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:47 pm

Kylwell wrote:*snippity snip snip*

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MillenniumFalsehood
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Post by MillenniumFalsehood » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:14 pm

Got a question: can I take one of those solid disks of watercolor paint you can get at the craft section of Walmart, grind it up, and mix it with water to get a wash? I want to try that on my Finemolds Y-Wing.

And for rusts, I find that if you take regular Testors brown and gradually add a bit of orange at a time that you can get a nice rust color for large "pools" of rust.
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Post by Kolschey » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:31 pm

MillenniumFalsehood wrote:Got a question: can I take one of those solid disks of watercolor paint you can get at the craft section of Walmart, grind it up, and mix it with water to get a wash? I want to try that on my Finemolds Y-Wing.

And for rusts, I find that if you take regular Testors brown and gradually add a bit of orange at a time that you can get a nice rust color for large "pools" of rust.
It would definitely be worth testing.

Myself, I've actually mucked around with poster paint pigment(dry, mixed with water) and got some cool effects.

Caveat: I am a scratchbuilder, so what works for me may definitely NOT work for a 1:72 model, for instance. As others here and elsewhere often wisely recommend, test first on a dead build...

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Post by starmanmm » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:49 am

My understanding, from another hobby site, that using any of those water colors as a wash works very well. I understand that the key is using specifically Windex not water.

From what I understand (in fact I will be using this type of wash today), all you have to do is drip your brush in clean water to either feather the lines or remove the excess paint to remove harsh lines or if you add too much of the wash. It dries very fast and all you have to do is seal it with dull coat (not too much or you will reactivate the wash).

Also, if the water color beads up, because the project is seal already, just add a drop of dish washing detergent to the wash or run your brush over a bar of soap. This will help break the water tension. Or coat the kit with a clear acrylic to give it some tooth for the wash to grab onto.

But needless to say, you would be better off applying the wash prior to sealing your project.

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Post by Kylwell » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:11 am

Uhm, just remember Windex will eat your acrylic paint underneath. Try water with a bit of surficant.
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Post by Kun2112 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:19 pm

Kylwell wrote:Uhm, just remember Windex will eat your acrylic paint underneath. Try water with a bit of surficant.
Amen, a few squirts of windex will make several layers of acrylic paint go away. That's why I have a sign on my hutch at work warning the cleaning crew what will happen.

Let's just put it this way: that was not a proactive measure. Why anyone would use Windex to dust cherry, I will never understand.

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Post by starmanmm » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:52 pm

Uhm, just remember Windex will eat your acrylic paint underneath. Try water with a bit of surficant.
I usually seal the kit before doing any washes to save my work... so Windex won't affect the acrylic paint.

On another question regarding washes... Oils specifically... once you put an oil wash on... do you seal it again with dull coat or just call it good?

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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:09 pm

whats the best sealer other than future for use with acrylics ?
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Post by starmanmm » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:24 pm

Out of a can... I have used the Krylon Crystal Clear and the Krylon Matte Finish.

Model Masters Dull Coat, Gloss and Semi-Gloss out of the can has worked for me with no ill effects.

For spraying... Poly S Flat Finish and then there's Model Master Acryl Semi-Gloss Clear and their Flat Clear and Gloss Clear Acryl.

And also for spraying.... Model Master Flat Clear Lacquer Finish and their Gloss Clear Lacquer Finish.

I have used them all on acrylic paints... after I had given them a day or two to dry out.

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Post by Kylwell » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:27 pm

The best?

No such creature. I used Testors acrylic clear coats when I need something that's not glossy. In the past I've used just about every clear coat known to mankind, Krylon UV coats coming to mind the most.

The Testors a/b beautifully, can be thinned or hand brushed on, dries fine, works with oils afterwards, comes in largish bottles... Only bad thing is you can't pick it up at the grocery or hardware store.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:31 pm

thanks :D
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Post by TER-OR » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:11 pm

The best acrylic I've used is PolyScale. Thin well and apply in VERY light coats.

Seal your washes, but if you want shiny washes later you'll have to re-do things.
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Post by jgoldader » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:06 am

Hi all,

I'm going to be doing a heavily-weathered model, lots of washes and such. The washes will be going over Krylon primer and acrylic paints, all sealed with Future before applying the washes.

I would like to use water-based washes. They seem the easiest to manage, and easily removed if the result isn't satisfactory.

What would be a good way to seal the washes? Can I just spray thin coats of Future through the airbrush?

Thanks!
Jeff

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:38 am

I seal mine with either Future, Testor's acrylic clear coats, or JW Etc's matte.
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Post by modeler1964 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:59 am

I tried the watercolor wash and wasn't too impressed. It didn't flow like I thought it would and yes I used cascade surfectant(sp?). I had coated my K'Tinga with a couple of coats of future. Maybe I got the recipe wrong. Anyway some advice needed here.

If I decided to remove this wash, is it ok to use an enamel wash over acrylics sealed with future? If this is possible what should I use to thin the enamel for the wash? Mineral spirits? Turpenoid?

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weathering techniques

Post by Newbie Doobie » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:08 pm

You're all doing this the hard way! I don't meant to sound condescending,but I have been doing this for thirty years! ILM sprayed gloss white over their models,then steelwooled them because there was no satin clearcoat available at that time. This can create a smooth surface to paint over so that mistakes can be removed easily. This however,can make for an undesirable effect if you're going for totally flat look,and can't get into small recesses! These will leave glossy spots,that can be hard to hide. Your best bet is to spray a satin finish on it,then do your weathering. After you get the effect you're going for,them spray it with a flat clearcoat(Krylon flat) is best for this. I used water based acrylic,and a toothbrush to achieve the weathering affect. You can spray lacquer over polystyrene,just not lacquer thinner. This is a solvent,and is highly corrosive to remove solvent based automotive finishes! You should never spray lacquer over enamel as it IS highly acidic to enamel,and causes it to wrinkle! Enamel is low solvent,and lacquer is a high solvent based paint. This makes a huge mess when you use them together! When using a paint on polystyrene use only enamel,or water based paint! Inks,and oils are only to be used with art supplies such as,canvas,or acid based paper products. These can stain paint,plastic,and create an undesired look. Pastels are used for paper,and porous surfaces,and are messy,and difficult to use for models,as these are designed for light shading,and don't stick to hard surfaces! These also have to be clearcoated to keep them in place. You can get a very realistic effect if you practice with sheet styrene,and a toothbrush,or paint brush with water based acrylic for desired looks. Go to a junkyard,and take pictures of cars,and truck in various stages of damage,and aging. See how rust spots,and paint chips are formed,and how this all makes for a reliced look! This should give you a better,and informed idea of how to make your models look as realistic as possible! here's a link to my model that I recently built,and used ONLY water based acrylic enamel - NO PASTELS! http://s700.photobucket.com/albums/ww8/Doobie_Boobie/ This was modeled after Luke Skywalkers' red 5 from ILM photos.

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:45 pm

Anyone ever try Winsor and NEwton acrylic paints for washes? I love their inks and was curious how their acrylic paints might work.

Thanks in advance.

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Post by seam-filler » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:36 am

They work great. As do Daler/Rowney & Liquitex. The great advantage with artist's acrylics is that you can mix almost any colour you can imagine.
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Post by starmanmm » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:40 pm

Anyone ever try Winsor and NEwton acrylic paints for washes?
I do and have no problem with them. Easy to use and easy to correct. Great pigment!

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Post by Squall67584 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:37 pm

Is it best to put a gloss coat over the paint before weathering with pastels?

Newbie Doobie

Post by Newbie Doobie » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:41 pm

It's best with satin,so if you make a mistake,you can remove it without ruining your paint underneath! :wink: I always spray everything down with Krylon flat clearcoat afterwards to blend everything together once my weathering is done. :D

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Post by Squall67584 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:53 pm

I found this link that describes washes and filters while cruising the internet at work.

http://www.migproductions.com/minisite/ ... washes.htm

Pretty cool since they have pictures showing everything.

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Post by Shepfish » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:40 am

hey there,
i will start by saying that i am very dissapointed, after lots of work on this project (which is a first attempt at a good model build) i feel iv let the thing go pearshaped!

here are pictures of the build from about halfway through - to priming the thing with tamiya primer.

http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt53 ... /?newest=1

unfortunately i have now seen some of the stuff people have done on this site and have despaired that my best efforts are nothing!! lol, not bad for a first crack at something like this though in my opinion.

today however, while experimenting with my own wash i made a grave error! i decided after finding that a mix of just tamiya paint and water worked very well on a small detailed gun turret i would wash this over an entire area of the hull. this ended in basically smearing black paint over the thing after it had dried and it looks awful.

so really i need help.

first of all i would probably like to take all the paint off the thing, carve my own panel lines into the ship, and remove the manufactured ones that are there to give the illusion of lines, then start afresh with the paintwork.

i thought that just paining the whole thing a similar light grey to the primer followed by a wash over the entire surface would be good. i am however, no paining expert so was wondering what tools i would need for the job and any other advice on solving this one.

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Post by starmanmm » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:26 pm

If I am understanding what you are having issues with (washes) try to use water colors as a wash. Easy to apply and easy to remove.

For panel lines.... try using an ordinary sewing pin to make your panel lines. Use a flexible straight edge.

My problem is that I do not know what you have access to in your country, but I think that you will get the idea of what will work.

You can try stripping it with something like pine sol or you can lightly spray the kit with primer.

Hope these ideas help.

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Post by seam-filler » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:48 am

Shepfish – First of all, don’t despair. Disappointment is a T-shirt we all wear. IMO finishing is the most challenging part of modelling and the part that takes the most practice and takes the longest time to master.

For scribing, there is nothing simpler than a pin. Go for the longer, heavier gauge and stronger “dressmaker” pins. At about 30-35mm long they are easier to handle and being of better quality, are a lot stronger. A flexible straight-edge is pretty much a must – these are available in artist and model shops. When scribing, don’t try to do it all at once: several light passes is much, much better than one or two heavy passes. Buff down the raised ridges crated with 1400 grit wet & dry paper used wet.

For priming, I don’t bother with things like Tamiya. It’s expensive and you can get problems with compatibility with top-coats if you use something else. I use Halfords White or Grey primer. Cheap, but good quality and I’ve never had a compatibility problem.

As far as washes are concerned, I agree with starmanmm, watercolours are the easiest to deal with. You can get cheap artists’ sets from places like The Works that will do just nicely. The wash should really be tinted water, i.e. no real depth of colour to it. You can add a few drops of dishwasher rinse aid to the wash – this will make it flow better. Apply with a good quality soft brush. Depending on the application, I use either a “mop” or flat No 7 brush. It’s best to work on small areas at a time – it’s rarely good to drench the model. It also helps if the surface is matt – washes can be applied to gloss & satin finishes, but the results are quite different. Keep some rags, paper towel and cotton-buds to hand. Their use will be obvious when you get going.

If you need to remove a watercolour wash, do so as soon as you can. Warm water with a few drops of washing-up liquid should work. If it has dried on this will take a bit longer. If the wash is acrylic then you have to be a bit more aggressive to remove it, especially if it’s been there for more than a few days. Some will suggest Mr Muscle Oven Cleaner. The problem with this is that it will almost always remove ALL the paint (primer included) and you may not want to do that. The stuff is also pretty nasty and very antisocial. I prefer Fairy Power Spray – it’s a lot less aggressive, but it will remove even enamels if left on for long enough. But if you spray it on, stick it into a plastic bag and then rinse off after about a ½ hour, the wash will be removed, but the finish underneath should be OK.

As for other tools and materials, sometimes you can compromise and use basic, cheap stuff. When it comes to brushes, paint, glues & cements, knives & scalpels and straight-edges going cheap will be a false economy.

So, persevere and, if in doubt, post another question here. There are enough Brits in here to help with translating brand names & such, as well as being able to recommend UK sites for tools & materials.

Best of luck!
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Post by TER-OR » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:28 pm

Watercolors are great - get the transparent ones in little tubes. When doing panel lines, make sure you have a good gloss coat. The excess can be removed with a very slightly dampened cotton swab or foam applicator.
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Post by davidwinter » Fri May 28, 2010 6:00 pm

I see a lot of people here talking about just putting the wash into panel lines. That works but I've also seen great results with the wash applied to the whole model. Literally just brush painted on with no regard to where the panel lines are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwHP6Tj13DE

This guy paints the whole model with the wash, then rubs away the wash (after drying) with a paper towel.

The results are very impressive. Granted, he's using a very specialized product and I don't know of the pastel chalk or tempera paint concoctions would work the same way, but the results are impressive none the less.
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Post by Kylwell » Fri May 28, 2010 6:21 pm

All depends on how clean you want it to look and how much time you want to spend cleaning the wash off.

I personally prefer a nice clean pinwash of black followed by a series of dot filters and regular filters, which will reduce the starkness of the black pinwash.
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Post by Glorfindel » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:02 am

Will too much thinner such as turpenoid in a wash (oil based) ruin an acrylic base coat through a clear coat finish? In my old art school days I can remember that oils go on top of acrylics but not vice versa. I'm only curious because I've never washed a model with such a high ratio of thinner to paint (other then cleaning brushes).
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