Basics. Weathering. Washes

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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Kylwell
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Post by Kylwell » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:39 pm

You've got to let it dry thoroughly. A few days sometimes, before applying the clearcoat, but that's the same for oils no matter what kind of clear coat you use.
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Post by Glorfindel » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:18 pm

Definitely something I need to remember looking forward.
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Post by DeltaVee » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:33 pm

I'm trying Grumbacher Payne's Gray watercolor paste over a future clearcoat. Seems to be working ok, except the panel lines aren't deep and I'm having to redo some lines. Plus my mix is probably too watery and the pigment doesn't always wind up in the line.

Main question is - once I finish wiping away the extra, do I need to overcoat with Future again before applying decals?

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:22 pm

Yes.

*edit*

Actually, I would have put the decals on before the wash. You don't want the panel line to disappear under the decal.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.

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Post by DeltaVee » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:34 am

Thanks. so if you apply decals first, I assume you need to overcoat them before applying the wash?

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:26 am

Yes. I'd coat them with Future, and depending on the finish you're after, coat the whole model with Future. Then either a dull or satin finish, or go right straight to washes. Filters work better with dull coats.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.

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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:53 am

Thanks much. Well, some places the wash stays. On some shallow panel lines, it doesn't, despite several different tries to remove the slop. So it's uneven. And I can't say Payne's Gray on a 1/1000 ship gives a very scale appearance. Oh well, I'm not about to strip it and start over. Lesson learned.

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Post by starmanmm » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:49 am

Maybe you have to apply it a bit thicker and once it dries... you a damp q-tip to wipe away the areas you don't want covered?
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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:49 pm

Tried the q tip. Tried lightly swiping with a damp sponge. SOL.

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:16 pm

Maybe it needs something to bite into. Have you tried going over it with a flat coat?
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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:31 pm

Nope, didn't try that. Of course, it loses its capillary action somewhat at that point and starts spreading out. I've had this before. I'm not good with shallow panel lines.

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Post by Harry Joy » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:13 pm

I tend to prefer water-based paints and so tried using watercolors for some of my earliest attempts at weathering. Frankly, IMO watercolors are teh suxxorz for weathering. I don't use them at all anymore for any stage or step in modeling. For weathering, I use an oil/pigment mix, pre-made by Mig because I'm lazy like that. I made my own oil washes with Grumbacher thinners and generic oil paints, but as cost effective as that might seem, it's really no cheaper than having my collection of Mig washes ready made in bottles, not once you figure in the wastage from making your own.

Another easy and low-impact weathering agent I've come to dislike - chalks. Artists chalks and harder chalks. While you can get an absolutely incredible effect with them, you should pop that murph under a glass cover as soon as you're done and never touch it again.

Nope, I go with oil washes, and tricks with paints - acrylic, lacquer or enamel. Depends on what I'm doing. But it's all with anything but watercolor.

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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:22 pm

Still working my nerve up for oils. Not sure how to use the MiG pigments. Plus, I've become attached to Future and Tamiya flat base, so I'm not sure what those can take and what they can't. Plus, I'm still left needing to wipe away excess after the wash, so I'm not sure anything in shallow panel lines will survive the cleanup/wipe off.

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:32 pm

Harry Joy wrote:Another easy and low-impact weathering agent I've come to dislike - chalks. Artists chalks and harder chalks. While you can get an absolutely incredible effect with them, you should pop that murph under a glass cover as soon as you're done and never touch it again.
I agree 100%. Pastels are just not durable. If you can manage to never, ever get any dust on the model, then I suppose they would be ok. But there are other methods to get the same effect, and they are much more robust.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.

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Post by Harry Joy » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:21 pm

DeltaVee wrote:Still working my nerve up for oils. Not sure how to use the MiG pigments. Plus, I've become attached to Future and Tamiya flat base, so I'm not sure what those can take and what they can't. Plus, I'm still left needing to wipe away excess after the wash, so I'm not sure anything in shallow panel lines will survive the cleanup/wipe off.

Mig washes work like any other, and prefer a high gloss undercoat. Call me a heretic, unconventional if you will, but I use Future for that. And I finish all my builds with Tamiya spray can clear coats.

To be honest, I didn't read your concerns thoroughly, but if the lines are too shallow for even Mig washes, maybe they don't need to be highlighted. Or, alternately, you could use regular paints, or deepen the lines.

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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:51 pm

Thanks. If Future takes Mig washes, I need to give them a try. I've not had a lot of luck rescribing in the past. Many resin kit lines are not as fine as the scribers as well. I'll definitely try MiG washes if you can apply over Future.

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Post by Stellar_Expanse » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 am

What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?
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Post by Harry Joy » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:40 am

Stellar_Expanse wrote:What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?

There are all sorts of pastels. Some are oil based, some are water based, some are standard chalks, some are colored pencil leads.... It should be apparent by it's own characteristics, if you are looking at a pastel in hand. If you suspect it's oil based, it likely is.

At any rate - the best thing to cut a pastel with depends on many things. The best thing to thin a pastel's color with is a lighter color of the same type you are using. To thin it for application, I don't know what you would use. It doesn't function like paint.

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Post by Kylwell » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:10 am

Stellar_Expanse wrote:What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?
There are 2 basic types of pastels, oil based and chalk based. You want the chalk based ones. If it doesn't say "oil pastel" it should work. Grind up fine and use water with a touch of surfactant to make your wash.
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Post by MillenniumFalsehood » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Harry Joy wrote:I tend to prefer water-based paints and so tried using watercolors for some of my earliest attempts at weathering. Frankly, IMO watercolors are teh suxxorz for weathering. I don't use them at all anymore for any stage or step in modeling.
Interesting.

I use nothing *but* watercolors for my washes.

There is a trick to using them, though. First, you need to use the *dry* watercolors, y'know, the ones that you used in school which look like little bricks of color? Also, your model must have a flat coat or else the watercolors will bead up. Mix a pump of liquid soap with a tiny bit of water (about a 1:4 ratio soap-to-water), then dip your brush in the water and then swirl it around the watercolor briquette. Then apply it liberally to your model and let it dry. It will eventually soak into the paint, so you have to give it a wipe when it's still at least a little wet.
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Post by Magnus » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:41 pm

Really new to washing and weathering so apologies for the stupid questions:

1) can you use an acrylic/water wash on a model that was painted with enamel oil paints?

2) for very small wear around panels and exhaust, what do people recommend? Does anyone have any tutorials they could share?

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Post by PetarB » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:56 pm

1) can you use an acrylic/water wash on a model that was painted with enamel oil paints?

Yes. Some people call it a 'sludge' wash.

2) for very small wear around panels and exhaust, what do people recommend? Does anyone have any tutorials they could share?

There are plenty of techniques. My favourite involve Tamiya's weathering sets which have been out for a few years now. They are easy to use and create a good effect, however there are lots of alternatives.

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Post by Magnus » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:06 pm

A sludge wash? That doesn't sound very good :?

If I don't want it to be sludgy and to be just a regular black wash, should I use oil diluted with thinner on an enamel paint job?

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Post by DeltaVee » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:34 pm

I gloss coated my Nu Galactica and did a panel line and rib wash. Do I need to gloss it again for the Acreation armor and rib decals or can I just apply them?

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:53 pm

Gloss coat it again after the wash. Actually you probably ought to put the decals on before any washes, but what's done is done.
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Post by DeltaVee » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:45 am

I was kinda afraid the wash would eat the decals, and there I'd be with a whole model covered with eroded, washed out decals. If I'd done that, I assume I should have overcoated the decals before the wash?

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Post by Mr. Badwrench » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:27 am

Yeah, my usual order of operations, (after painting), is gloss coat, decals, gloss coat, paint chipping, pinwash, flat coat mixed with transparent oils, filters & drybrushing, more paint chipping, flat or satin coat, then any mud or oil streaks I might need.
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Post by DeltaVee » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:23 am

Thanks. I've got a few more models I can use that process on. The wash and weather thing is still new to me.

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Post by Lord Darth Beavis » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:23 pm

Anybody tell me how long oil paints take to dry? I did a wash with some black oil paints, and 2 days later, it's still a wet mess. I even wiped the majority off with a lint-free towel, and still a mess.

Any suggestions?
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