Basics. Weathering. Washes

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

Moderators: DasPhule, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Kylwell
Moderator
Posts: 29643
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: Lakewood, CO
Contact:

Post by Kylwell »

You've got to let it dry thoroughly. A few days sometimes, before applying the clearcoat, but that's the same for oils no matter what kind of clear coat you use.
Abolish Alliteration
User avatar
Glorfindel
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Glorfindel »

Definitely something I need to remember looking forward.
Thanks Ky.
Buck Laughlin: [after Beatrice the dog jumps up on the show judge] He went for her like she's made outta ham.
~Best in Show, 2000
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

I'm trying Grumbacher Payne's Gray watercolor paste over a future clearcoat. Seems to be working ok, except the panel lines aren't deep and I'm having to redo some lines. Plus my mix is probably too watery and the pigment doesn't always wind up in the line.

Main question is - once I finish wiping away the extra, do I need to overcoat with Future again before applying decals?
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Yes.

*edit*

Actually, I would have put the decals on before the wash. You don't want the panel line to disappear under the decal.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Thanks. so if you apply decals first, I assume you need to overcoat them before applying the wash?
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Yes. I'd coat them with Future, and depending on the finish you're after, coat the whole model with Future. Then either a dull or satin finish, or go right straight to washes. Filters work better with dull coats.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Thanks much. Well, some places the wash stays. On some shallow panel lines, it doesn't, despite several different tries to remove the slop. So it's uneven. And I can't say Payne's Gray on a 1/1000 ship gives a very scale appearance. Oh well, I'm not about to strip it and start over. Lesson learned.
User avatar
starmanmm
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:59 am
Location: New Bedford, MA

Post by starmanmm »

Maybe you have to apply it a bit thicker and once it dries... you a damp q-tip to wipe away the areas you don't want covered?
"Things fall apart... It's Scientific" Talking Heads
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Tried the q tip. Tried lightly swiping with a damp sponge. SOL.
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Maybe it needs something to bite into. Have you tried going over it with a flat coat?
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Nope, didn't try that. Of course, it loses its capillary action somewhat at that point and starts spreading out. I've had this before. I'm not good with shallow panel lines.
User avatar
Harry Joy
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:31 am
Location: Memphis

Post by Harry Joy »

I tend to prefer water-based paints and so tried using watercolors for some of my earliest attempts at weathering. Frankly, IMO watercolors are teh suxxorz for weathering. I don't use them at all anymore for any stage or step in modeling. For weathering, I use an oil/pigment mix, pre-made by Mig because I'm lazy like that. I made my own oil washes with Grumbacher thinners and generic oil paints, but as cost effective as that might seem, it's really no cheaper than having my collection of Mig washes ready made in bottles, not once you figure in the wastage from making your own.

Another easy and low-impact weathering agent I've come to dislike - chalks. Artists chalks and harder chalks. While you can get an absolutely incredible effect with them, you should pop that murph under a glass cover as soon as you're done and never touch it again.

Nope, I go with oil washes, and tricks with paints - acrylic, lacquer or enamel. Depends on what I'm doing. But it's all with anything but watercolor.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Still working my nerve up for oils. Not sure how to use the MiG pigments. Plus, I've become attached to Future and Tamiya flat base, so I'm not sure what those can take and what they can't. Plus, I'm still left needing to wipe away excess after the wash, so I'm not sure anything in shallow panel lines will survive the cleanup/wipe off.
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Harry Joy wrote:Another easy and low-impact weathering agent I've come to dislike - chalks. Artists chalks and harder chalks. While you can get an absolutely incredible effect with them, you should pop that murph under a glass cover as soon as you're done and never touch it again.
I agree 100%. Pastels are just not durable. If you can manage to never, ever get any dust on the model, then I suppose they would be ok. But there are other methods to get the same effect, and they are much more robust.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
User avatar
Harry Joy
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:31 am
Location: Memphis

Post by Harry Joy »

DeltaVee wrote:Still working my nerve up for oils. Not sure how to use the MiG pigments. Plus, I've become attached to Future and Tamiya flat base, so I'm not sure what those can take and what they can't. Plus, I'm still left needing to wipe away excess after the wash, so I'm not sure anything in shallow panel lines will survive the cleanup/wipe off.

Mig washes work like any other, and prefer a high gloss undercoat. Call me a heretic, unconventional if you will, but I use Future for that. And I finish all my builds with Tamiya spray can clear coats.

To be honest, I didn't read your concerns thoroughly, but if the lines are too shallow for even Mig washes, maybe they don't need to be highlighted. Or, alternately, you could use regular paints, or deepen the lines.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Thanks. If Future takes Mig washes, I need to give them a try. I've not had a lot of luck rescribing in the past. Many resin kit lines are not as fine as the scribers as well. I'll definitely try MiG washes if you can apply over Future.
User avatar
Stellar_Expanse
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:55 pm
Location: Great Lakes State

Post by Stellar_Expanse »

What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?
Everything is relative.
User avatar
Harry Joy
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:31 am
Location: Memphis

Post by Harry Joy »

Stellar_Expanse wrote:What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?

There are all sorts of pastels. Some are oil based, some are water based, some are standard chalks, some are colored pencil leads.... It should be apparent by it's own characteristics, if you are looking at a pastel in hand. If you suspect it's oil based, it likely is.

At any rate - the best thing to cut a pastel with depends on many things. The best thing to thin a pastel's color with is a lighter color of the same type you are using. To thin it for application, I don't know what you would use. It doesn't function like paint.
User avatar
Kylwell
Moderator
Posts: 29643
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: Lakewood, CO
Contact:

Post by Kylwell »

Stellar_Expanse wrote:What cuts pastels??? Are they oil based?
There are 2 basic types of pastels, oil based and chalk based. You want the chalk based ones. If it doesn't say "oil pastel" it should work. Grind up fine and use water with a touch of surfactant to make your wash.
Abolish Alliteration
lzqqqq
Banned
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:22 am

Post by lzqqqq »

Moderator zapped Spambot links.
User avatar
MillenniumFalsehood
Posts: 16974
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:23 pm
Location: Wichita, KS, USA
Contact:

Post by MillenniumFalsehood »

Harry Joy wrote:I tend to prefer water-based paints and so tried using watercolors for some of my earliest attempts at weathering. Frankly, IMO watercolors are teh suxxorz for weathering. I don't use them at all anymore for any stage or step in modeling.
Interesting.

I use nothing *but* watercolors for my washes.

There is a trick to using them, though. First, you need to use the *dry* watercolors, y'know, the ones that you used in school which look like little bricks of color? Also, your model must have a flat coat or else the watercolors will bead up. Mix a pump of liquid soap with a tiny bit of water (about a 1:4 ratio soap-to-water), then dip your brush in the water and then swirl it around the watercolor briquette. Then apply it liberally to your model and let it dry. It will eventually soak into the paint, so you have to give it a wipe when it's still at least a little wet.
If a redhead works at a bakery, does that make him a gingerbread man?

Ponies defeat a Star Trek villain? Give them a Star Wars award ceremony!
Magnus
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:29 pm

Post by Magnus »

Really new to washing and weathering so apologies for the stupid questions:

1) can you use an acrylic/water wash on a model that was painted with enamel oil paints?

2) for very small wear around panels and exhaust, what do people recommend? Does anyone have any tutorials they could share?
User avatar
PetarB
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:24 pm
Contact:

Post by PetarB »

1) can you use an acrylic/water wash on a model that was painted with enamel oil paints?

Yes. Some people call it a 'sludge' wash.

2) for very small wear around panels and exhaust, what do people recommend? Does anyone have any tutorials they could share?

There are plenty of techniques. My favourite involve Tamiya's weathering sets which have been out for a few years now. They are easy to use and create a good effect, however there are lots of alternatives.
Magnus
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:29 pm

Post by Magnus »

A sludge wash? That doesn't sound very good :?

If I don't want it to be sludgy and to be just a regular black wash, should I use oil diluted with thinner on an enamel paint job?
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

I gloss coated my Nu Galactica and did a panel line and rib wash. Do I need to gloss it again for the Acreation armor and rib decals or can I just apply them?
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Gloss coat it again after the wash. Actually you probably ought to put the decals on before any washes, but what's done is done.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

I was kinda afraid the wash would eat the decals, and there I'd be with a whole model covered with eroded, washed out decals. If I'd done that, I assume I should have overcoated the decals before the wash?
User avatar
Mr. Badwrench
Posts: 9587
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Wheatridge, Co.

Post by Mr. Badwrench »

Yeah, my usual order of operations, (after painting), is gloss coat, decals, gloss coat, paint chipping, pinwash, flat coat mixed with transparent oils, filters & drybrushing, more paint chipping, flat or satin coat, then any mud or oil streaks I might need.
I speak of the pompatous of plastic.
DeltaVee
Posts: 2931
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:34 am

Post by DeltaVee »

Thanks. I've got a few more models I can use that process on. The wash and weather thing is still new to me.
User avatar
Lord Darth Beavis
Posts: 9050
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:01 pm
Location: In that number!
Contact:

Post by Lord Darth Beavis »

Anybody tell me how long oil paints take to dry? I did a wash with some black oil paints, and 2 days later, it's still a wet mess. I even wiped the majority off with a lint-free towel, and still a mess.

Any suggestions?
"I have an ARMY!"

*shrugs* "We have a Hulk."
================================
America*: Land of the Free**



* - "America" is a registered trademark of U.S. Corporations.
** - No actual freedoms are inferred or implied.
Any resemblance to totalitarian regimes is strictly coincidental
unless those regimes are regulated by the Federal Government.

================================
'Russia Space Agency. My name Peggy. Have problem?'
Post Reply