Basics. Weathering. Washes

This is the place to get answers about painting, weathering and other aspects of finishing a model.

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Basics. Weathering. Washes

Post by TER-OR » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 pm

Please use this thread to discuss the basics of washes of various techniques.
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Post by Captain Bob » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:30 pm

how do you make a wash?
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Post by TER-OR » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:40 pm

Copied from my pastels post - my favorite new method. It's so nice...





Recently I experimented with a new wash technique. I've used enamels and oil paints mixed into mineral spirits. Enamels must be removed with more mineral spirits - which makes them resiliant and durable, but not freindly.

Oils may be removed with a cloth or cotton swab. But they still require mineral spirits or turpentine to dissolve, and not all oils paints are fine-grained pigments.

I finally tried using pastels. Many thanks to Zombe for his earlier reports, which got me thinking. Simply lightly shave some dust from a chalk pastel into a container - a small cup or mixing well. Then add a bit of water, and a surfactant of some sort. I used Floquil's flow aid, simply a non-sudsing detergent. A rinse aid for the dishwasher reportedly works well, too.

Then I applied the wash in the traditional manner, allowing it to flow into panel lines. It worked great, and dried quickly. Small overapplications were easily removed via cotton swab.

I mixed various colors of pastels until I got the hue I was looking for. This let me make a grimy version of the base coat for realism.
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Post by Richard D » Tue May 04, 2004 12:56 pm

Personally preffer using eyeshadow.

for weathering, it's idea. its cheap and easy to use, the only down side is that when you buy it people give you funny looks.

use a cheap, dry, brush to apply it.

but for things like rust, for the place you want some rust, piant on clear paint, not much, just to create a tacky surface and sprinkle on iron fillings then simply leave outside for 2 or 3 days (hopefully in the rain).
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Post by JimPV » Sat May 08, 2004 4:40 pm

Here's a question: can I do an oil wash over an enamel base (Model Master "Bright Brass" enamel to be specific)?

I'm gonna' let the base dry for a week or so to make sure it's good and cured (and even then I know I gotta' be careful with the oil wash).

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Post by TER-OR » Sat May 08, 2004 10:21 pm

You will need to have a non-common layer. For example, if you're using enamels, seal them with lacquer or acrylic. Otherwise, if you wash with oils - cut in paint thinner or turps, you will remove base coat or damage it.

So, let the enamels cure for a couple of days, overcoat with glosscoat (when I used enamels I used lacquer glosscoat), and then let that cure a little while, and do your washes. There's no way around it, I'm afraid.


I have found that acrylics are resistant to the water/pastel washes, but I still like a good, hard glosscoat.
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Post by JimPV » Sun May 09, 2004 11:14 am

^ ^
Hmmmmm, I was afraid of that. Thing is, I don't want to destroy the metallic-ness of the enamel with a clear coat.

I guess I could do a laquer wash, huh? How 'bout an acrylic wash? The thing about the latter is I really want it to be durable, again without having to seal it.

Thanks for the feedback.

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Post by TER-OR » Sun May 09, 2004 5:43 pm

No lacquer. No. Bad Modeler!!!

Try the pastel wash technique I described. It's probably your best bet if you don't want to seal it.
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Post by Andrew Gorman » Tue May 11, 2004 3:19 pm

Try a lacquer wash! It will be a learning experience. You'll see....
The problem is that lacquer thinner will attack most plastics and paint with effects ranging from crazing to dissolving them outright. Could be interesting in some cases, but a total unmitigated disaster in most.
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Post by whopper » Wed May 12, 2004 4:30 pm

This is the single best wash I have ever tried.

http://www.modelersresource.com/frame_articles.htm

I found this better than water based washes. First off water based washes hardly ever go into the "cracks" as well as you would like, and often have to be rewashed many times to get the intended effect. Many times the rewash will wash away any previous successes you had before, even with the dishwash soap or dishwashing machine stuff added in for surface tension.

I found them better than oil based washes too. It dries slower than water, but faster than oil. It'll take about 20 minutes to get it dry enough to the point where touching it won't make a difference, though I'd wait many hours to expect it to be fully dry.

The effect I got was very well done. Cracks were completely black. There were many many different shades of grey in between for some very nice gradiations.

I spent many months trying to find the so called "Glaze Coat"

I couldn't find any for quite awhile. I called pretty much every hardware & paint store within my county. Then, I happened upon this site.

http://www.paintsupply.net/Faux_Paintin ... e_wash.htm

I was able to find "tints all" fairly easily at the first Home Depot I tried.

I haven't tried this wash yet on painted models. Instead I have only used it as the article mentioned, to "antique" or prestain a primed model or figure in an effort to subtely add a slight shading effect to models that can be seen under a coat of paint. I have thought about using this as a wash on a painted model, but haven't gotten around to doing it, and Glaze Coat does have mineral spirits, so I believe an "in between" coat for a glaze coat wash and the basecoat will be needed. I emailed the author of the article to see if he had any experience with this but got no response back.
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Post by JimPV » Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:14 pm

You will need to have a non-common layer (to do an oil wash over an enamel base). For example, if you're using enamels, seal them with lacquer or acrylic. Otherwise, if you wash with oils - cut in paint thinner or turps, you will remove base coat or damage it.
Well, you were right! I let the enamel "cure" for a couple weeks and tried an oil wash, and sho' nuff, the enamel base started to dissolve. Fortunately, I tried it on a area that can be easily fixed, so no harm done.

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Post by Kylwell » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:07 pm

I've got to say, having just tried the pastel & water wash, that it works great.

Shaved some dark gray pastel into water to get a kinda sludge, dabbed/smeared it onto the model then wiped it off. Works great, and doesn't seem to stain like ink washes do.
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Post by TER-OR » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:27 am

Do make sure you have a good glossy surface when doing the panel line washes. The pigment will sit in a matte surface.
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Post by Kylwell » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:15 am

Yes, that's a definate. A good gloss coat is manitory (looking at the peice he'd forgotten to gloss coat) but not hard to achieve.

ANd if you don't like the results, wash it off with a little water.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:48 am

I want to color my wall door lines on the invaders ufo, i used testors flat white enamel it has cured for 4 days now, i want to get the dark color in the small door lines and want to be able to clean away any excess dark color easily. would an acrylic wash be best and what is the best way to thin it ? i have acrylic thinner , i want to get it into the door lines and be able to wipe away any smudges on the flat white without harming the white enamel.
thanks ! :D
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Post by d_coombes » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:53 pm

A tempura / kids water color paint wash would do what you want.
If you add a drop or two of washing up soap to the mix it works even better.
Once its dry clean the residue off with a cotton bud. You might want to do this over a gloss coat and then add a flat coat once you've finished which sounds like a lot of work but its worth it.

Here is a link with full instructions:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/Weathering.html

The advantage of this approach over just a standard wash is you can remove the wash if its too much.

Hope this helps.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:16 pm

thanks for that link dave :D thats a good example of what i want to do.
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Post by Lonewolf » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:05 pm

d_coombes wrote:A tempura / kids water color paint wash would do what you want.
There was also an article in FSM this month about this. It's a neat idea, and it looks pretty easy.
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Post by M.T.C. » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:18 am

Thanks for the tip on eye shadow for weathering,unbelieveable.My first weathered model of the Stargazer,Cool!!!

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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:38 am

what i ended up doing on the flat white walls where the doors were i traced the grooves of the doors with a mechanical pencil and on the flat white it looks GREAT !!!!! i must say, this kit turned out beautiful and i am going to try and borrow a digital camera this weekend and take photos of my ufo. if i can do it i will post :D them here.
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Post by Jason Abbadon » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:23 am

A great way to use oil pastels is to buy some Blending Stumps (they're dirt cheap at any art store) and oil pastel coored pencils not so cheap but they last a looong time).

Basically, you use the colored pastel pencils to shade the area you want highlighted, then dip the blending stump (essentialy it's a tightly rolled, pencil shaped piece of newsprint paper) in a small amount od thinner/mineral spirits and blend it in to your liking.

It's a much more precise technique than using a brush and you can weather a specific area of the model without having to mask off what you want untouched.

The same technique works with wax-based color pencils and de-natured alchohol.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:34 pm

TER-OR wrote:Copied from my pastels post - my favorite new method. It's so nice...





Recently I experimented with a new wash technique. I've used enamels and oil paints mixed into mineral spirits. Enamels must be removed with more mineral spirits - which makes them resiliant and durable, but not freindly.

Oils may be removed with a cloth or cotton swab. But they still require mineral spirits or turpentine to dissolve, and not all oils paints are fine-grained pigments.

I finally tried using pastels. Many thanks to Zombe for his earlier reports, which got me thinking. Simply lightly shave some dust from a chalk pastel into a container - a small cup or mixing well. Then add a bit of water, and a surfactant of some sort. I used Floquil's flow aid, simply a non-sudsing detergent. A rinse aid for the dishwasher reportedly works well, too.

Then I applied the wash in the traditional manner, allowing it to flow into panel lines. It worked great, and dried quickly. Small overapplications were easily removed via cotton swab.

I mixed various colors of pastels until I got the hue I was looking for. This let me make a grimy version of the base coat for realism.
Here's me explaining my madness in another post:
Remember you can use the pastels dry, to rub them in, or wet (what I am referring to) as a wash. Basically, finely grind your pastels with the blunt end of a paint brush. Then, in a small (spoon-sized works well) container run some water, and then add just a single drop or two of laundry detergent. Stir well, but don't make suds.

Next, add the ground pastel dust to the water and detergent mixture, stir slowly. Make sure the pastels are COMPLETELY dissolved in the mixture. You can apply the was as usual with a brush.

Any excess wash, or mistakes, can be mopped up with a damp cotton swab when dry.

I hope this helps.

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Post by Kylwell » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:55 pm

Amen Brotha!
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Post by TER-OR » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:02 pm

And I might mention that watercolor paints rock for weathering. They're different from pastels, but similar. Another trick in the ol' batbelt.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:51 am

TER-OR wrote:And I might mention that watercolor paints rock for weathering. They're different from pastels, but similar. Another trick in the ol' batbelt.
Which brand do you use? I've tried my pastel method with watercolors, and I just couldn't get it right. :-k

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Post by TER-OR » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:00 pm

Just Windsor and Newton. Do get the expensive stuff in the small tubes. They'll last a long time.

I have a little vial of Payne's Gray in water, Slo-Dri and Flow-Aid. It works pretty well.

I also have a little vial of Future with India ink and Flow-Aid. That's kind of a transparent sludge wash.
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Post by Mack » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:08 am

I've always just used black poly s with water as a wash. Works great for the most part but if applied too heavily it pools and doesn't look right once dried. Then I touch up the panel lines with citadel black ink.

I think I'll try the pastels and watercolor - I have both just sitting around.

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Post by Boxster » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:30 am

I know a guy in Bangkok that does the ultimate wash. A bit troublesome, I feel but the ultimate on his military planes.

Spray finished model with gloss and he doesn't even use hobby gloss.

His fave paint for wash is Gunze but any enamel is ok. Mix with reducer and go around the model, hack, you can use a big brush too.

When its dried, He use a pincer/cotton wool and start cleaning it off with lighter fluid and creating weathering at the same time. If not happy, redo, easy clean up, controlled and super realistic.

Dull or flat coat it. Permanent too!

Just thought I share what I learn and practising too!

B

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Post by justcrash » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:02 am

TER-OR wrote:A rinse aid for the dishwasher reportedly works well, too.
Hey Ter, do you or does anyone else know the name of the dishwasher agent?

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Post by nicholjm » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:13 am

I've noticed that alot of people will almost completely assemble a model and then paint it with their airbrush. This is opposite of the way I usually did it. I painted either individual parts or subassemblies as I go, and by the time I assembled the whole thing, it's probably 90% painted. I did this because I didn't have an airbrush, and couldn't get up close with a spray bomb can. Now that I have an airbrush (which I haven't really gotten to try yet), is the former method the way to go? It seems like getting paint in every nook and cranny will still be difficult, even with the airbrush. Should I still paint in subassemblies, as needed, to get even coverage?
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