Basics. Airbrushing.

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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:00 pm

What is the AB you used? Make; single or double action.
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Darkowski
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Post by Darkowski » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:04 pm

It's a Badger Crescendo Model 175-7, dual action, internal mix.

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Tue May 11, 2010 5:44 pm

Wise and Sagely Starship Modelers,

I come to the Council of Styrene and Resin with a grave and confounding problem. After soaking my Badger 155 in Castrol Superclean for a couple of hours, flushing and reassembling it, it was beset by some manner of Visible Frog Necromancy I have not seen: It was foaming at the trigger!

Basically, when the trigger is pulled about 10-percent of the way back and is depressed, media flow halts and the airbrush bubbles from the trigger opening. The teflon bearing appears to be seated properly; I disassembled recleaned and reassembled everything again. I also checked the little vent holes in the nozzle cap and the one in the airbrush body. I didn't see anything occluding them.

I burned three Halcyon dropships and wafted smoke around the airbrush with decal paper to try and dispel the evil infecting it. That did not work either; the problem persists.

This smells like teflon bearing trouble to me, but I am not sure. What is your guidance, wise ones?

Kenny

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Post by starmanmm » Tue May 11, 2010 7:30 pm

Before I go to that conclusion... I would take it apart and re-soak it. If you have one, I would drop it in a sonic cleaner.

Maybe there is still something stuck inside causing the problem. As you know, it don't take much.

Either way, rinse it out good with windshield washer fluid or water and wipe every thing down and then put it back together and try it.
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Post by TER-OR » Tue May 11, 2010 10:27 pm

I attempted to consult the stars, but Poseidon vexes me with clouds. I then threw my diamond files and discerned in the pattern the answer. I think it tells me the needle bearing has succumbed to the ravages of time.


Does it perform the same with just water? If it shoots water but not the thicker paint, it's the bearing.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed May 12, 2010 1:31 am

Wise words, gentlemen.
TER-OR wrote:I attempted to consult the stars, but Poseidon vexes me with clouds. I then threw my diamond files and discerned in the pattern the answer. I think it tells me the needle bearing has succumbed to the ravages of time.


Does it perform the same with just water? If it shoots water but not the thicker paint, it's the bearing.
I disassembled, soaked for a few more hours and cleaned with trusty windshield washer fluid. Alas, I was disheartened at the results when water is shooting markedly better than paint.

At this point, I think I have two options:

1.) Secure the Tachyon Techronomicon from Haephestus himself and restore the machinery to its former state.
2.) Consort with the Badger technical mages of yore and have them forge me a new teflon needle bearing, reseat it and return the beloved instrument.

I think option two will be best, as the gods have beset me with all manner of plagues of late...and Haephestus is known to be a rather gruff character.

Kenny

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Post by Kylwell » Wed May 12, 2010 2:47 am

...or buy an Iwata from Tom....
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed May 12, 2010 10:39 am

Kylwell wrote:...or buy an Iwata from Tom....
I have an HP-CH that I use for those times when I need to paint eyelashes on the pilots of 1/72 scale aerospace fighters. ;) I ran into this problem when Futuring just after masking with Tamiya tape.

I love my Iwata but I don't like to use it for wide area stuff. Although, I could always go entirely Iwata. :-k

Kenny

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Post by Callandor » Fri May 14, 2010 10:31 am

I recently purchased a Paasche external mix syphon feed AB (don't remember the exact model #). I have had a few problems and have several questions.

1 . What tip size works best for MM acrylics, particularly for large area coverage? It came w/ a 1, 3, and 5.

2 . Is there a difference between the air caps for the different sizes? I cannot get my size 5 air cap to screw on. Can I use one from another size tip?

3. Is there a Paasche bottle cap that will screw directly to a MM bottle? It came w/ 1 oz bottles and the lids are too big to screw onto a MM bottle. Will the 1/2 oz bottles lids work?I really don't want to have to constantly swap paint from bottle to bottle.

4. How in the world is the AB supposed to sit in the hanger? Maybe I am an idiot, but I can't figure out a good way that is stable.

5 . Are there better online manuals / instructions for Paasche brushes? The instructions included w/ the brush really sucks.

6. Lastly, and most importantly, I cannot seem to get a consistent flow of paint. It seems to start and stop very badly. To get a decent paint flow, I had to crank the pressure and open up the largest tip pretty high. Then I would get puddling. It seems like it was all-or-nothing with the paint flow. I was using MM Acrylic with a bit of thinner and my craftsman air compressor.

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Post by walter » Fri May 14, 2010 10:59 am

Callandor wrote:I recently purchased a Paasche external mix syphon feed AB (don't remember the exact model #). I have had a few problems and have several questions.

1 . What tip size works best for MM acrylics, particularly for large area coverage? It came w/ a 1, 3, and 5.

2 . Is there a difference between the air caps for the different sizes? I cannot get my size 5 air cap to screw on. Can I use one from another size tip?

3. Is there a Paasche bottle cap that will screw directly to a MM bottle? It came w/ 1 oz bottles and the lids are too big to screw onto a MM bottle. Will the 1/2 oz bottles lids work?I really don't want to have to constantly swap paint from bottle to bottle.

4. How in the world is the AB supposed to sit in the hanger? Maybe I am an idiot, but I can't figure out a good way that is stable.

5 . Are there better online manuals / instructions for Paasche brushes? The instructions included w/ the brush really sucks.

6. Lastly, and most importantly, I cannot seem to get a consistent flow of paint. It seems to start and stop very badly. To get a decent paint flow, I had to crank the pressure and open up the largest tip pretty high. Then I would get puddling. It seems like it was all-or-nothing with the paint flow. I was using MM Acrylic with a bit of thinner and my craftsman air compressor.
for #6 I think you need to thin the paint more

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Post by TER-OR » Sat May 15, 2010 7:19 am

You could have some chunks in that paint. Or you may have paint buildup on the exposed section of needle. Both will cause that loss of paint flow.
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Post by Callandor » Mon May 17, 2010 9:37 am

The airbrush is brand new. It was the first time I had used it, so there would not have been any paint buildup.

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon May 17, 2010 4:39 pm

Callandor wrote:I recently purchased a Paasche external mix syphon feed AB (don't remember the exact model #). I have had a few problems and have several questions.

1 . What tip size works best for MM acrylics, particularly for large area coverage? It came w/ a 1, 3, and 5.

2 . Is there a difference between the air caps for the different sizes? I cannot get my size 5 air cap to screw on. Can I use one from another size tip?

3. Is there a Paasche bottle cap that will screw directly to a MM bottle? It came w/ 1 oz bottles and the lids are too big to screw onto a MM bottle. Will the 1/2 oz bottles lids work?I really don't want to have to constantly swap paint from bottle to bottle.

4. How in the world is the AB supposed to sit in the hanger? Maybe I am an idiot, but I can't figure out a good way that is stable.

5 . Are there better online manuals / instructions for Paasche brushes? The instructions included w/ the brush really sucks.

6. Lastly, and most importantly, I cannot seem to get a consistent flow of paint. It seems to start and stop very badly. To get a decent paint flow, I had to crank the pressure and open up the largest tip pretty high. Then I would get puddling. It seems like it was all-or-nothing with the paint flow. I was using MM Acrylic with a bit of thinner and my craftsman air compressor.
1 . What tip size works best for MM acrylics, particularly for large area coverage? It came w/ a 1, 3, and 5.
This is a two or three parter. First thing for general work for lines down to, say, 1/8-inch, thin the media to the consistency of skim milk. The manuals say the paint should just lap up to side of the jar and run back down for this type of work. Then, it MUST be strained. Get a set of these for this, using the finest mesh to strain the thinned media into the jar you're going to paint from.

Now, you're thinking "but which tip?" You want to go with the finest aperture size possible to get the greatest atomization of the media. IF your paint is strained, the large clumps of unground pigment should be gone and you should be able to get away with the smallest tip. If it absolutely, positively will not work, then go with the medium tip. But, if I can thin, strain and shoot craft acrylics through my Iwata HP-CH .3mm nozzle, the Paasche should be able to Handle MM acrylics with no sweat.
2 . Is there a difference between the air caps for the different sizes? I cannot get my size 5 air cap to screw on. Can I use one from another size tip?
I had a VLS and only used the fine/fine and medium/medium combinations. I am not knowledgeable about the external mix stuff. However, you may try some of the figure modelers. Some of them work in 1/1 scale busts, and as such, they use the external mix Paasches for basecoating, as those airbrushes are the workhorses of movie makeup guys for the same purposes.
3. Is there a Paasche bottle cap that will screw directly to a MM bottle? It came w/ 1 oz bottles and the lids are too big to screw onto a MM bottle. Will the 1/2 oz bottles lids work?I really don't want to have to constantly swap paint from bottle to bottle.
Don't know about Paasche, but Badger makes/made one. Badger bottles fit in Paasche airbrushes and vice-versa.
4. How in the world is the AB supposed to sit in the hanger? Maybe I am an idiot, but I can't figure out a good way that is stable.
Do what I did. Bend one "fork" high and one low and "form" them around the airbrush body. The airbrush will then always point downhill.
5 . Are there better online manuals / instructions for Paasche brushes? The instructions included w/ the brush really sucks.
There's not one specifically for Paasche. IRonically, I learned more about my old Paasche when I bought my Badger and Iwata due to the schematic and details about how to clean the thing. email me at khjr14 [at] gmail[dot]com for an excellent article on airbrush cleaning.

6. Lastly, and most importantly, I cannot seem to get a consistent flow of paint. It seems to start and stop very badly. To get a decent paint flow, I had to crank the pressure and open up the largest tip pretty high. Then I would get puddling. It seems like it was all-or-nothing with the paint flow. I was using MM Acrylic with a bit of thinner and my craftsman air compressor.
Straining, thinning and pressure. If your paint is thinned properly, you shouldn't have to go higher than 20 or 22 psi; I seldom shoot higher than 15-to-17 psi. Fine work with super-thin media means under 10 psi (Thanks, Jonas Calhoun!).

I hope this helps.

Kenny

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Fri May 21, 2010 5:29 am

Wise and Sagely Starship Modelers,

I beseech thee with a problem vexing both my Iwata and my Badger. It appears I am doing something wrong when mixing all media types and I am not sure what it is.

If I am shooting, lacquers, or acrylics or spirit-based enamels for a just a short period of time, whether skim-milk thin or fine-line, gasoline thin, and stop and then restart, a little bit of residue has remained on the needle tip, thus being expelled from the tip as the valve is depressed, but BEFORE the needle is pulled back. This causes a few little droplets to get sprayed onto the substrate, necessitating blending them into the surrounding area.

I do this at 15-17 psi with the normally thinned paints for general work in the Badger 155 and the Iwata HP-CH ( I tried both to make sure it wasn't the brush). I also manage to do it in both brushes at very low pressure, with uber thin paints - lacquer, enamel, acrylic, and even inks in Future and Flow-Aid(!). The only thing that doesn't do it is straight Future.

What causes this? Is my paint too thin? Do I need retarder? Help me, Iwata Kenobis, you're my only hope.

Kenny

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Post by TER-OR » Fri May 21, 2010 12:47 pm

O seeker of wisdom, you have encountered the most common problem I have. A bit of paint builds up on the needle - this dirties the paint pattern leading to spatter among other things.

My best observations find the problem worse with the less paint I apply. On shading, fine pattern spraying etc. I am moving a lot of air and not a lot of paint. Thus, the paint dries more quickly. This is worse with flatter paints than semi-gloss. When painting details with gaming paints it's really bad. I have to keep looking at the needle and using a brush to remove excess.

Back your pressure down to about 10, I found that helps a bit. Otherwise, keep a cup of water/alcohol and a stiff but fine brush nearby and check the exposed needle frequently.
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Post by Butters » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:29 pm

I've not used my AB, an Eclipse HP-CS is a while, and it's not spraying in a sooth manner; it's rat-at-tat tatting as it sprays, machine gun style.

Any suggestions?
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:56 pm

Butters wrote:I've not used my AB, an Eclipse HP-CS is a while, and it's not spraying in a sooth manner; it's rat-at-tat tatting as it sprays, machine gun style.

Any suggestions?
Sounds like one of two things:

1.) Water in the line hitting the brush, thus occluding the air valve as it hits and briefly "hiccupping" as it goes through.

2.) Piece of paint "Flapping" in the nozzle. Soak the nozzle in Super Clean or Iwata airbrush Cleaner overnight. Reassemble and flush it with Windex and see if that floats your boat.

I hope this helps.

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Post by Butters » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:42 pm

I had my pressure at 40 psi (unknowingly :oops: ) as Iuse it for dust removal when it's not in service as a AB. When I knotched it down to 20psi it shoots fine.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:54 am

Butters wrote:I had my pressure at 40 psi (unknowingly :oops: ) as Iuse it for dust removal when it's not in service as a AB. When I knotched it down to 20psi it shoots fine.
:lol: I do the same thing for my iRobot Dirt Dog. :lol:


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Post by Pandaphil » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:09 pm

Time for my own supid questions. If these have been covered, I'd appreciate a point towards the proper thread/post.


Whats the difference between Paint thinner, airbrush thinner, and airbrush cleaner?


I generally use Model Masters paints in my airbrush. Is there other products commonly available besides the thinners and cleaners available from Testors that are commonly available, and possibly cheaper? I seem to burn through those small $5.50 botles really fast.

I'm thinking along the lines of something you'd find at a local paint supply or hardware store, as the nearest good art supply place is about a 2 hour bus ride away. :(
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Post by Kylwell » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:14 pm

Pandaphil wrote:Time for my own supid questions. If these have been covered, I'd appreciate a point towards the proper thread/post.


Whats the difference between Paint thinner, airbrush thinner, and airbrush cleaner?


I generally use Model Masters paints in my airbrush. Is there other products commonly available besides the thinners and cleaners available from Testors that are commonly available, and possibly cheaper? I seem to burn through those small $5.50 botles really fast.

I'm thinking along the lines of something you'd find at a local paint supply or hardware store, as the nearest good art supply place is about a 2 hour bus ride away. :(
Paint thinner, usually used to thin paint like Testors solvent based enamels. Common hardware store paint thinner will suffice.

Airbrush thinner, used to thin pant for use in an airbrush. Use lacquer thinner for lacquers (like MM metalizers), paint thinner for solvent based.enamels,

Airbrush cleaner, just use lacquer thinner but mind the fumes.
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Post by ExarKun77 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:40 pm

Hope i'm not posting in the wrong section, i just don't want to start another thread for a noob question.
I used the search engine, but couldn't really find my answer.

Here's a pic of what my problem is right now:
http://s1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... CN1744.jpg

Some spots appear, and even on the areas that look ok, when i pass my finger on, the paint is not smooth at all.
I am using Tamiya acrylics, thinned with alcohol (50/50 for the moment). And i'm kind of stuck on acrylics, it's the only thing i can find easily here.
Cheap airbrush and compressor, but i should at least be able to get an even layer on a surface.
When airbrushing, i do a first quick and light pass, then come back and do slow passes, avoiding the surface to get wet.

What am i doing wrong?
wrong mix?
need to do something after each layer to get them smooth?
or maybe need to slow my passes and get the surface wet as i airbrush?

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Post by starmanmm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Hard to tell by the pic... but has this kit been primed at all first? I usually do.

Also, what psi are you shooting at? I shoot Tamiya at around 20psi or less.

How far away are you spraying? You should be no further than 6-8 inches. That could be why you are getting rough areas... the paint is drying too quickly.... meaning it is drying as it is traveling in the air to the kit.

Also consider using less alcohol... you may need a bit more paint.

Those are my guesses.
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Post by ExarKun77 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:13 pm

It was already primed black, and this was the first layer of white.

I'd like to tell you the psi, but my cheap compressor only says "2 bar" and "12L/min".
I was spraying at 15/20cm (so...under 7 inches, if i'm correct)

And i think you had a point on the mix ratio. I'm no expert but i noticed that alcohol dried very fast.
I still want very thin layers, cause it's a small model (1/72 Slave1), and it will have a lot of different layers, so i don't want to loose the details.
But as you said, the paint may dry before hitting the model.

So i'll try spraying closer, or switching to water as a thinner, longer dry time, i guess.
Thanks a lot.

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Post by starmanmm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:28 pm

I think that you would be better off using the Tamiya Thinner... but as I said not so much. Like it has been said before.... thin it to the consistance of skim/watered milk.

Me... I would not go with the water as a thinner.... go for the Tamiya or just reduce the amount of alcohol that you used.

An take your time!

Spray in short strokes and keep the needle clean of build up... which means clean the tip often. I use Tamiya paint and find that I have to clean the tip often.
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Post by TER-OR » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:56 pm

This could be a couple of things. First I suspect the paint is thick and sprayed at too high air pressure. Tamiya flats are bad for this, they have an outrageous amount of matte agent. I prefer to mix gloss and flat 50/50 with Tamiya. I prefer to use Gunze Sangyo's semi-gloss when I can find it...

Another possibility is dust. It's tricky stuff. I like the PolyScale Plastic Prep to reduce static charge.

I also re-learned something recently. White doesn't cover worth a damn. Whenever you can, use a light gray and then white as a highlight coat on your final shading. I had to sand down a model recently which I had painted with Tamiya Flat white and used FAR more than I intended. fortunately it's a pretty smooth aircraft so details weren't a problem.
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:06 pm

You may also want to try filtering the paint but I'm guessing (along w/Starmanmm) that is may be too high of a pressure and the tip is getting dirty with paint that occasionally will fly off with a splat.
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Post by ExarKun77 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:10 am

Thanks for the answers, guys, now i have a lot of options to consider.

@ starmanmm and Kylwell
i'll consider tamiya thinner, but later on, for financial reasons.
and i'll keep in mind to clean the needle as i airbrush.

@ TER-OR:
i'll try to find a better mix, yes.
i definitely have dust here, i know (i live in a small studio, in a big city, so open the windows for 5 minutes and you're screwed). But i'm trying to spray in the cleanest way i can.

And finaly, i know it, i'm spraying at 29 psi. Unfortunately, can't change anything on this old cheap compressor.

Plus i was just using white to reveal seamlines/imperfections, this model will have a lot more layers on when finished, and none of them are white ;)
To give you a glimpse of what i'm doing, i'll go from white to silver (so i can chip and get back the silver color anywhere), then base layer (kind of grey), a darker grey for some areas, at least 3 variations of green, pink and red for the bottom of the ship.
And i'm not even talking about the weathering. So don't worry, i'm not even close to finish this paint job.

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Post by James Tiberius Kirk » Thu May 12, 2011 4:04 pm

what is the best I can use for Tamiya paints to thin through an airbrush?

Isopropyl Alcohol? Water? Distilled Water?!

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Post by starmanmm » Thu May 12, 2011 6:42 pm

Me... I have sticked with their thinner. No problems that way.
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