Future floor polish

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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Mon May 03, 2010 6:27 pm

Now the question: Model Master Flat was mentioned; is that the "Flat Clear Lacquer"? Is it OK to use this over Future? Someone earlier in the thread said that it was OK to use Testors Clear Lacquers over future, but now I'm not sure.
Me........ I would let the paint dry out for a couple of days... maybe a week before I would use the future first. (Remember that we are using enamel paint, so I do want it to dry).

Then if you really want to go over this with lacquers.... then the let future dry for at least a week. When ready to apply the lacquers... I would first lightly mist it on and let it dry for about an hour or so. Then, mist each layer on.... giving it some time to dry before the next coat.

Me... I am cautions... so, YES, I do take the time to let everything dry before I move forward.

But, hey, that is me.
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Post by Glorfindel » Tue May 25, 2010 9:02 pm

When airbrushing Future in fine mists how long should I wait before applying second and third coats? Will 30 minutes do? Hour in between coats? Several days? I'm up to the point of applying decals and finish details on a SnowSpeeder and was wondering what sort of time frame I'm looking at. Also, how thick should I build this layer of Future up? Should the entire model shine or is a slight apparent sheen be suffice for placing decals?
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Dry time... waiting time between coats, curing time...

Post by samusaran » Wed May 26, 2010 5:22 pm

Glorfindel wrote:When airbrushing Future in fine mists how long should I wait before applying second and third coats? Will 30 minutes do? Hour in between coats? Several days? I'm up to the point of applying decals and finish details on a SnowSpeeder and was wondering what sort of time frame I'm looking at. Also, how thick should I build this layer of Future up? Should the entire model shine or is a slight apparent sheen be suffice for placing decals?
I have the same question... I know that I will have to apply several thin coats (maybe 4-5) of FUTURE to have the right finish for the decals. I also know that I should airbrush it at 15-20 PSI max. But do I need to wait 24 hours between coats ??? It will take me up to five days + the curing time before I can apply the decals :shock:

Way too long :(

But I'll be sure to let the FUTURE cure for at least 24 hours (if not 48 hours) before I apply the decals.

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Post by Kylwell » Wed May 26, 2010 6:26 pm

I do 1 coat, enough to make it shiney.

If I have to do more than 1 coat I may wait an hour between coats (here @ 5000+ feet and 28% humidity). Future doesn't have a lot of energy to reactivate the lower layers so you don't need to go to a full cure.
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Post by Glorfindel » Thu May 27, 2010 8:53 am

I just airbrushed my third coat of future in two days and I'm getting a very peculiar effect on my stripping. The base coat is fine but my red stripes are showing a white haze in spots. Now when I originally masked for the stripes I used the salt technique to create that chipped paint effect. I then airbrushed and about 30 minutes later removed my masking. Stripes came out great. With an old toothbrush I flipped off the salt and used a #11 blade to knock off the stubborn salt. I'm wondering if the Future is reacting to remnant salt I could not see on the surface. Has anyone had this problem before. The model is a Snow Speeder that I am trying to mimic from pics I had seen in ModelerMagic. It should also be known that I thinned down the Future, @ 4 parts, with 1 part 50% Iso. Alcohol. The first two misting's were fine, it's the third that has me scratching my head.
Last edited by Glorfindel on Thu May 27, 2010 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kylwell » Thu May 27, 2010 9:51 am

I've had salt residue react with hairspray so I'd have to guess that it'll also react with Future. With the hairspray it was all on the surface and I've found a gently washing in water and a toothbrush will remove 99% of the salt residue.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Thu May 27, 2010 10:31 am

Kylwell wrote:I've had salt residue react with hairspray so I'd have to guess that it'll also react with Future. With the hairspray it was all on the surface and I've found a gently washing in water and a toothbrush will remove 99% of the salt residue.
ARe you saying the toothbrush and water will remove the residue through the hairspray/Future or prior to the hairpray/Future? The reason I ask is I had the same problem with fogging through a topcoat once.

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Post by Kylwell » Thu May 27, 2010 11:05 am

No, wash it before the hairspray/Future. Not sure what to do to remove it from cured Future other than to try a light buffing.
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Post by Glorfindel » Thu May 27, 2010 11:42 am

I'm wondering if buffing with a warm damp cloth will remove both the Future and the salt? For poops and giggles how is Future removed off a model? Will warm water do it? Booze?
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Post by Kylwell » Thu May 27, 2010 11:46 am

Warm water will reactivate it to some level, Windex with ammonia will remove it entirely (but also attack the underlying paint if they're acrylic).

My only concern with using warm water is getting it sticky again and catching bits of fiber from what ever you're using to buff it with.
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Post by Glorfindel » Thu May 27, 2010 12:04 pm

[quote="Kylwell" I've found a gently washing in water and a toothbrush will remove 99% of the salt residue.[/quote]

I'll need to remember that next time. Very sound advice. Thanks.
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Post by Glorfindel » Thu May 27, 2010 12:08 pm

I am painting with acrylics and yes, the warm water did remove a good portion of the salt marks. Some remain. It actually makes the areas look a bit more worn.
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Post by Glorfindel » Thu May 27, 2010 8:32 pm

Funny thing happened just now. I finished some decaling and detail airbrushing today and decided to put an acrylic flat top coat on all. As the flat acrylic dried it vanquished the remaining whitish salt marks that were bleeding through. Now the red stripping is back in it's original glory! Seems almost magical. While still wet I can only assume the salt seemed to "blend" in with the acrylic and when it dried it did so in it's non-whitening state. I'm sure someone once said "May luck favor the foolish".
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Thu May 27, 2010 9:17 pm

Kylwell wrote:No, wash it before the hairspray/Future. Not sure what to do to remove it from cured Future other than to try a light buffing.
Okay. I was wondering (read as "hoping") there was some magic formula in case I make the same mistake in the Future, pun intended. :lol:

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Post by WarpeD » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:39 pm

I'm trying to create the effect of unpainted black plastic. This is sort of a semi-gloss or semi-flat, depending on how you look at it, and I have plenty of Tamiya Flat Black on hand. I've read mixed reviews of mixing Future with Tamiya....anyone tried making a semi-flat with Future + Flat Tamiya acrylic paint?

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Post by Butters » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:56 pm

No, I haven't, but I don't think it'll work. I think the wax'll overpower the flat completely. But I've not tried it.
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:35 am

...and then there's always semi-gloss Tamiya black....
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:54 pm

WarpeD wrote:I'm trying to create the effect of unpainted black plastic. This is sort of a semi-gloss or semi-flat, depending on how you look at it, and I have plenty of Tamiya Flat Black on hand. I've read mixed reviews of mixing Future with Tamiya....anyone tried making a semi-flat with Future + Flat Tamiya acrylic paint?
What about painting the thing black and then mixing Future with flat base for a semi-flat clear coat? Apply semi-flat and you're good.

Thoughts?

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Post by Kylwell » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:03 pm

I've also used Tamiya Smoke along with some Future & Tamiya Flat Base to get a really nice satin/semi-gloss finish that can be layered.
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Post by Dukat, S.G. » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:10 pm

Gents,

I'm thinking about using Future as a protective coat for oil washes. After applying the Future (probably by hand, incidentally; it brushes on soooo beautifully), would letting it cure for 48 hours be enough?

If it helps, I'll probably leave the part in my food dehydrator for an appreciable length of that time.

I ask because I've not used oils in an incredibly long time and, during some initial experiments on spare parts, I found that the oils attacked even overnight-dried Future. 'Took some fairly aggressive swabbing for that to happen, but still -- thought I'd ask. If it'd help to let it dry for a week or more, I can do that, too (my general rule of thumb is, if I can still smell the Future/enamel/whatever after days in the dehydrator, it's not quite ready).
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Post by Kylwell » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:22 pm

What are you thinning the oils with? Never had an issue with odorless turpenoid thinned oils over Future.
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Post by Dukat, S.G. » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:30 pm

Kylwell wrote:What are you thinning the oils with? Never had an issue with odorless turpenoid thinned oils over Future.
I cut these particular "Artisan oils" with the thinner that Winsor & Newton recommended. Unfortunately, said thinner's packaging has NO ingredients.

As I said, however, Model Master's enamel airbrush thinner ate that stuff up like no tomorrow, even when the W&N stuff wouldn't even touch its own paint once dry (2-3 hours).

I'm in the [pricey] process of buying legit artist's oils; even though I've blown a good load on the Artisan line, where my Holy Grail is concerned, I want to take as few chances as possible.
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Post by Kylwell » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:46 pm

The MM thinner is paint thinner, petroleum distillate, it'll take damned near anything off anything. About the only thing harsher is lacquer thinner.

Back to oils.

The finer grades of oils will give better results. I'd keep an eye out for simple ordorless turpenoid. Doesn't give one a headache or stink up a room.

I'll give some scrubbing a try, never really had to scrub much.
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Post by Dukat, S.G. » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:12 am

Kylwell wrote:The MM thinner is paint thinner, petroleum distillate, it'll take damned near anything off anything. About the only thing harsher is lacquer thinner.
:shock:

Dang, I didn't know that. No wonder it cut through.

I've got plenty of odorless turp, so that's not a problem!
Back to oils.

The finer grades of oils will give better results. I'd keep an eye out for simple ordorless turpenoid. Doesn't give one a headache or stink up a room.

I'll give some scrubbing a try, never really had to scrub much.


By the point I was really working those Q-tips, the "oils" had been drying for a bit. Still, even without the MM thinner, they were cutting into the Future.

How do lacquers stand up to oils? If memory serves, I used to use Testor's Glosscote to protect against my early oil-washing/filtering experiments. I think it worked extremely well -- again, provided some time to cure.
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Post by Kylwell » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:25 am

I was told that oils on lacquers were a no-no but have since been told that they're fine over lacquers. My only personal experience was bad so I coat everything with an acrylic or polyurethane clear coat before oils.
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Post by Dukat, S.G. » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:33 pm

Kylwell wrote:I was told that oils on lacquers were a no-no but have since been told that they're fine over lacquers. My only personal experience was bad so I coat everything with an acrylic or polyurethane clear coat before oils.
Robb,

That sounds sensible.

By any chance do you remember a video put out in the mid-nineties by a Chris Wilson? Ah, here it is -- now on exciting DVD! ;)

http://www.videoworkbench.com/science_f ... odels.html

I have one of those tapes ... nearly wore the thing out. IIRC, Chris used Testor's gloss and dullcotes to seal his stuff, and he was very big on artist oil washes and drybrushing.

Some of his work can be seen at http://www.zactomodels.com/. Chris is a genuine IPMS champ, so I'm inclined to listen to him (to say nothing of the fact that he's an incredibly nice guy).

Then again, if I also remember right, while lacquers are dry to the touch within a half-hour, they need a good week or so to fully cure (?).

I've never used polyurethane clear coat. At least, I don't remember doing so ... since I started the hobby in '98, I've had five serious relationships and, among them, two girls I wanted to marry, neither of which worked out; lost more jobs than I care to count, etc. The only thing it seems I can remember with any consistency is numbers; e.g., what I was lifting in the gym throughout most of '93, '94, '96, '02, etc. :-\

-Sean
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Post by Pandaphil » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:18 pm

I've been having trouble with my latex 'Thing is a jars' soaking up water , swelling, and turning from clear to milky white. I'm wondering, is Future waterproof, and would it stand up to prolonged submersion?
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:32 pm

Pandaphil wrote:I've been having trouble with my latex 'Thing is a jars' soaking up water , swelling, and turning from clear to milky white. I'm wondering, is Future waterproof, and would it stand up to prolonged submersion?
Future is acrylic, which is, in turn basically clear latex. Future will often also fog when submerged in water for a time. At least it has for me when I have left clear parts submerged in water overnight long after they've been dipped. This is one of those things that still creeps up on me when cleaning things prior to painting - assuming I can leave things soaking in water as they're rinsed.

Sometimes the Future will clear after removed from the water and sometimes it remains fogged and lumpy.

I hope this helps.

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Post by Kylwell » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:43 pm

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:Future is acrylic, which is, in turn basically clear latex.
Er...no... Latex is a polymer but so is a vast huge amount of things. Chemically they're as different as oil & sand.

Future is a water soluble acrylate polymer, a Polyacrylate emulsion to be exact. Because the binding is slight a long soak in the universal solvent (water) will break it up making it white. It'd be great if it would harden into one of the more stable acrylates like Poly(methyl methacrylate) but no luck.

Which is why sealing with a polyurethane sealer, like JW etc's line of polyurethane clear coats, is best if you're looking for long time immersion into water.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:12 am

Kylwell wrote:
Lt. Z0mBe wrote:Future is acrylic, which is, in turn basically clear latex.
Er...no... Latex is a polymer but so is a vast huge amount of things. Chemically they're as different as oil & sand.

...
Sorry. Meant latex paint as they are polymer emulsions in water themselves binding pigments.

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