Future floor polish

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BERT aka MODEL MAKER
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:56 pm

I have a 1/48 scale Apollo Command module that i need to place decals on. The instructions call for leaving the command module white, & not painting it but instead just display the model as is. My question is this, how well will the decals adhere to the bare plastic ? If i prime with tamiya fine white primer and/or finish with a testors flat white spray paint. do i need to brush the area to be decaled with some future & let it dry before adding the decal ? OR, brush on some future & immediately apply the decal on the wet future , let it dry & then brush some future over the dry decal ?Now, if i have a flat white finish from painting it, will i now have a shiny spot where the decal is and if so, what is the best way to make that shiny spot blend in to the flat white surface ? OH, and another question, if i use the tamiya fine white primer, can i use that as my flat white surface for the model & forget the flat white paint ? This model & decals are 26 years old from 1983. :)
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Post by Butters » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:48 am

I've always believed that you should paint everything; bare plastic has a waxy sheen that's never realistic (thus sayeth the Book of Paine). I'm not too sure if CM's were a gloss or flat paint, so that's probably what you need to find out, as that will determine your next steps.

If CM's were flat, then you'll have to paint the CM gloss white, apply decals, then Future, then a matte/flat overspray.

If CM's were glossy, then you'll have to paint the CM gloss white, apply decals, then Future, and depending on how glossy the CM actually was, you may have to apply a semi-gloss overspray to 'tone-down' the high gloss.

But, before you apply those old 26 year old decals, you'll need to coat them with something like Microscale Liquid Decal Film. If you don't, they may crack and break!
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:34 pm

I was thinking of brushing a couple of light coats of future over the small decal sheet and waiting a couple of days to let it dry. will that make them stiff ? The command modules are normally bright mirror silver however, the early ones were white as were the skylab & apollo soyuz command modules. they look flat white.
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Post by Butters » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:14 am

Dunno about Future on the decals; I've never done that before.
aybe a more learned head will post about that.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:08 pm

Will dullcote harm future ? I have never used future to protect a decal & have never tried spraying dullcote over it. I wonder if a clear gloss enamel out of the bottle would be better.
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Post by eeun » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:24 pm

Testors Dullcoat over Future works fine.

The only important thing to note, and this is from experience*, is to make sure any coat is cured before applying a dissimilar top coat. I now give my Future several days to cure before I'd cover it with dullcoat.

Likewise, with anything except acrylics, I give several days to a week for paints to cure before applying Future. With Tamiya acrylics I can spray Future as soon as the paint's touch-dry and haven't had any problems.

* if you want to create a 'crackle' finish, Future over uncured alkyd paint will work really well :oops:
Last edited by eeun on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by starmanmm » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:12 pm

I agree with what eeun says.

To me, when in doubt, let a couple of days go by before using a different medium.

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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:49 am

thanks guys great advice. :)
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Bubble Trouble with Future and Windows

Post by wander1107 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:55 pm

I've dipped my windows into a small container of Future and each time I pull them out there are tiny bubbles trapped on the windows. I re-dipped the windows and the bubbles move to new areas.

The rest of the window looks great but these bubbles are driving me crazy.

Does anyone have any idea on how to pull the windows out without any bubbles that remain on the windows?
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:05 pm

Are you tilting the windows so that the future wicks off to 1 corner & then touching it to a piece of tissue paper to absorb the drip ? maybe a very slow dip & then an even slower retrieval.
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Post by wander1107 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:22 pm

Bert,

Yes, I've done that and it seems that the Future is running off in a nice sheet but them the tiny bubbles start to appear.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:40 am

maybe you can poke them with the tip of a needle. How many bubbles ? Is it a few or a cluster ?
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Post by wander1107 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:32 pm

They're scattered around. Actually the last dip I made only 3 bubbles came up. Only one is big enough to be noticable.

I'm going to live with what I have for now. I'll try poking the bubbles next time.

Thanks for your insight Bert.
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Post by Wug » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:22 pm

Is the plastic clean? Skin oil or mold release might be the problem.

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Post by wander1107 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:09 am

Yes, I just washed it a little earlier so there wouldn't be any prints, dust or dirt.
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Post by BERT aka MODEL MAKER » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:19 am

They could be just surface bubbles that happen when you lift something out of a liquid, their may be some tiny air bubbles on the surface of the liquid and it attracts to your piece like a magnet. shine a light on the surface of the liquid and look sideways along the top of it & see if there are any very tiny air bubbles at or just below the surface. when dunking a part in the future, sometimes air gets trapped & pushed down with the part. it is frustrating when you try to run from the bubbles.
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Post by seam-filler » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:18 am

Give the part quite a good shake while it's immersed. Then draw out very slowly until you have a tiny corner just in the future. Pause here for a moment to let the part drain a bit before withdrawing completely.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:00 am

What material are these windows made from? Are they styrene, acrylic, cast resin, butyrate blister packaging material or what? What I would do is rough them up a bit with some toothpaste and a toothbrush, then dip in Future. Then, wick away the excess with the torn edge of a paper towel. Make sure you rinse the piece really well, as in use a compeltely different water source to rinse the pieces with than you use with the toothpaste.

I hope this helps.

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Post by wander1107 » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:56 am

Thanks guys for the advice. I'll give it all a try.

Kenny: The parts are for a "styrene" car model. I never thought about the toothpaste before dipping it into the Future.
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Post by Callandor » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:34 pm

I just recently started using Futur as a clear coat. All was going well until yesterday. I had applied a set of 3rd party aztecking decals to my NX-01 and when I applied the top coat of future, the future kept trying to bead up on the decals. As it dried, it smoothed itself out some, but when the light reflects, you can still see spots where it beaded up. I am thinking the issue is that my spray booth area was too cold. I had to set it up in my garage and the temp was only about 50-55 degrees. Is that the problem? Will another light coat even it out a bit?

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Post by Apollo Adama » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:37 am

Callandor wrote:I just recently started using Futur as a clear coat. All was going well until yesterday. I had applied a set of 3rd party aztecking decals to my NX-01 and when I applied the top coat of future, the future kept trying to bead up on the decals. As it dried, it smoothed itself out some, but when the light reflects, you can still see spots where it beaded up. I am thinking the issue is that my spray booth area was too cold. I had to set it up in my garage and the temp was only about 50-55 degrees. Is that the problem? Will another light coat even it out a bit?
I responded to your other thread about the issues you're having with the decals and the bubbling up but I was meaning to ask you why you're using Future as a top-coat, post-application to begin with. If you're a starship builder (as it appears you are :wink: ) you're dealing with a matte (satin at its shiniest) finish so the way I'm looking at it is that you're just making double work for yourself by sealing them with a glossy just to later seal the whole model with a flat coat. That being said, as I noted in your other thread, you really should seal all of your decals in advance anyway (I prefer Testors Decal Bonder myself, and I prefer lacquers over acrylics overall) which further eliminates the need for a top-coat post-application/pre-model sealing.

As far as Future beading issues are concerned, what's your psi that your spraying Future at?

Also, 50 - 55 degrees? Holy Bejeezus, you must be freezing your hiney off! Go to Wal Mart and pick yourself up a space heater (best $30 I ever spent in the winter)! :D

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Post by TER-OR » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:23 pm

Generally, you topcoat the decals so the sheen is the same as the surrounding areas. Then when you dullcoat, the sheen will also be the same. I'm not sure about the Future beading over the decals, though, I haven't had that unfortunate experience.
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:31 pm

2 questions, what type of third party decals (Alps, Laser, inkjet, etc), did you thin the Future w/anything and how long did you let the decals set?

Wait, thet's three...
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Post by Apollo Adama » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:59 pm

TER-OR wrote:Generally, you topcoat the decals so the sheen is the same as the surrounding areas. Then when you dullcoat, the sheen will also be the same. I'm not sure about the Future beading over the decals, though, I haven't had that unfortunate experience.
Well, that makes sense but I've never had that issue when I applied dull coat that the there was difference in finish between decals and the surface. Dull coat has always been the great equalizer for me. However, this could just because I seal ALL of my decals in advance with the Testors decal bonder which glosses them anyway.

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:02 am

Callandor wrote:I just recently started using Futur as a clear coat. All was going well until yesterday. I had applied a set of 3rd party aztecking decals to my NX-01 and when I applied the top coat of future, the future kept trying to bead up on the decals. As it dried, it smoothed itself out some, but when the light reflects, you can still see spots where it beaded up. I am thinking the issue is that my spray booth area was too cold. I had to set it up in my garage and the temp was only about 50-55 degrees. Is that the problem? Will another light coat even it out a bit?
What did you shoot through your airbrush and bottle immediately before the Future? Here's why I ask: Future is acrylic and in the urethane family and it's emulsified in a water-soluble solution. If you shot shot something through the airbrush that either upset the Future's surface tension or could have caused the acrylic to crosslink before the rest of the Future solution dries, that would have caused the beading. Traces of mineral spirits will do this (upsets the surface tension) and certain cleaning products will do this (mildly acidic and acts on the acrylic making it partially crosslink when combined with isopropyl).

I would thoroughly flush the airbrush with Windex and then water and give it another test shot to see if that rights the ship.

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Post by Callandor » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:29 am

I discovered after the future dried thoroughly, that what I thought were beads of future were in fact bubbles in the decals. The glossiness of the future made the existing bubbles show up more. I followed some tips I got here on the boards to pretty much eliminate them.

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Is Pledge with Future SHine the same as Future????

Post by takos » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:40 am

I recently tried using a thinning concoction found on the Frugal Airbrushing string using Future, Windex, Alcohol and craft paint, When I sprayed it onto a test piece or cardboard the surface developed somewhat large bubbles that then popped and showed the color underneath, I thought it was the windex, so I thinned some acrylic paint with just Pledge with Future Shine and Viola!!! the same result, looks like a bubbling tar pit. Did they add some sort of a cleaner into the Future, the website says it contains surfactants, could that cause the bubbling. I tried thinning the paint with Windex alone and that worked out fine though I am not sure it needs the Future to bond with the Tamiya primer coat underneath. I want to be able to spray the finished model with Future and apply decals, but I am fearful that the Pledge with future may ruin my paintjob and I just spent hours masking the parts. Please help!!!!

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Post by rallymodeller » Sun May 02, 2010 12:04 am

OK. read through the entire thread and I have a question that was lightly touched on earlier but not really answered:

I'm painting my current model with Xtracolor paints (enamel), will be doing a Future coat to seal, and 2 flat coats (one to allow for pastel weathering and one to seal it all up). Now the question: Model Master Flat was mentioned; is that the "Flat Clear Lacquer"? Is it OK to use this over Future? Someone earlier in the thread said that it was OK to use Testors Clear Lacquers over future, but now I'm not sure.
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Re: Is Pledge with Future SHine the same as Future????

Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sun May 02, 2010 1:36 am

takos wrote:I recently tried using a thinning concoction found on the Frugal Airbrushing string using Future, Windex, Alcohol and craft paint, When I sprayed it onto a test piece or cardboard the surface developed somewhat large bubbles that then popped and showed the color underneath, I thought it was the windex, so I thinned some acrylic paint with just Pledge with Future Shine and Viola!!! the same result, looks like a bubbling tar pit. Did they add some sort of a cleaner into the Future, the website says it contains surfactants, could that cause the bubbling. I tried thinning the paint with Windex alone and that worked out fine though I am not sure it needs the Future to bond with the Tamiya primer coat underneath. I want to be able to spray the finished model with Future and apply decals, but I am fearful that the Pledge with future may ruin my paintjob and I just spent hours masking the parts. Please help!!!!
Pledge with Future Shine in the UNITED STATES is the same old Future. In Australia, and sometimes, depending upon lot, the United Kingdom it is not; this is true of other overseas dsitributions as well. This is according to S.C. Johnson and an MSDS site I found.

The reforumulated stuff overseas has a synthetic wax in place of its acrylic/latex clearcoat; it is akin to the Mop and Glow brand, as their MSDS information is very similar.

Are you using 'Murrican or overseas Future? Also, were you shooting it on true, corrugated paper or plain, old cardboard like that a model box is made out of? The reason I ask is corrugated paper, like that for cardboard boxes is usually sealed with a wax to deliberately keep water based stuff out of the paper.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sun May 02, 2010 1:48 am

rallymodeller wrote:OK. read through the entire thread and I have a question that was lightly touched on earlier but not really answered:

I'm painting my current model with Xtracolor paints (enamel), will be doing a Future coat to seal, and 2 flat coats (one to allow for pastel weathering and one to seal it all up). Now the question: Model Master Flat was mentioned; is that the "Flat Clear Lacquer"? Is it OK to use this over Future? Someone earlier in the thread said that it was OK to use Testors Clear Lacquers over future, but now I'm not sure.
I don't know about the MM Flat, Jeremy. What is the number of the MM Flat? The Acryl is FM02015 in the one-ounce size. Some acrylics fall under the heading of lacquers, so it is conceivable this could have been referred to as flat clear lacquer as well as the older "Dullcote" lacquer.

Years ago I used Testor's Dullcote over cured Future with no problems. the last time I did this was 1996 or 1997. However - and my models have never been in the sunlight (you've seen my evil laboratory) the lacquers always yellow over time. Period. My Starfury I entered in 2002, I completed in 1997, and looks like I preserved it in my urine in a mason jar. The same goes for all the models I completed in high school ( no sun at my parents' house) and the first two years of college before switching to acrylic clearcoats.

I hope this helps a bit.

Kenny

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