Black/blue paint

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aussie cylon
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Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:23 am

Hi all,
I want to paint something black, however, I want it to have a blue tinge to it when it catches the light. I've trolled the internet and can't find anything useful. Are there any paints out there that are readily available? If not, is there a technique to use, such as maybe spraying a light coat of black, then a light coat of blue, then another light coat of black and again a light coat of blue? Would that work?? Oh yeah, to make things even harder, I want a shimmering pearl finish. I've seen clear coats that are pearl coats, so I can just spray that on top??

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southwestforests
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by southwestforests » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:50 am

Hmm. From painting model locomotive boilers I have an idea except for the pearlescent part. A clean and glossy black finish will to some degree or another reflect the sky's blue when lit and viewed from the right angles; some examples from a popular rail photography website,
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/624807/ & http://www.railpictures.net/photo/592414/ & http://www.railpictures.net/photo/583061/
One way I use to represent that is to airbrush Tamiya clear blue acrylic along upper quarters of boiler jacketing.
It isn't used 100% strength but is thinned and built up after a few layers then waiting a day or two to observe whether more are needed for effect.

I guess one thing to do would be find a pearlescent black then do the transparent blue.
In acrylic art and craft paints there is a pearlescent medium which may be mixed with the paint.
In past decades I used it as a brush on overcoat on gaming miniatures of the refit Enterprise and other ships from era.
I no longer have those miniatures so cannot supply an image.
Testors in their spray paints has had a pearlescent overcoat but the solvent base in it has yellowed from where I used it on a couple model rockets about 8 years ago. White enamel paint will do likewise. So will bare white plastic, even on a Monogram 1/72 shuttle kit which has been unbuilt in the closet for over a decade.

That's pretty much the input I can contribute.
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011

mike robel
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by mike robel » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:23 am

Not being the world's best painter, I do have three observations:

1. Many people add two or three drops of blue to white paint to prevent yellowing. Not sure if this technique would not result in a Blue Black. Requires experimentation, which I am sure you have done.

2. Tamiya offers a pearlescent white paint. They and Testors may offer others.

3. Alcad lacquers, mostly metallic finishes, have interesting colors, you may wish to look at them.

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Lt. Z0mBe
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:16 pm

aussie cylon wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:23 am
Hi all,
I want to paint something black, however, I want it to have a blue tinge to it when it catches the light. I've trolled the internet and can't find anything useful. Are there any paints out there that are readily available? If not, is there a technique to use, such as maybe spraying a light coat of black, then a light coat of blue, then another light coat of black and again a light coat of blue? Would that work?? Oh yeah, to make things even harder, I want a shimmering pearl finish. I've seen clear coats that are pearl coats, so I can just spray that on top??
Are you talking about tempered steel-like color? If so, it's really easy to do.
1.) Set up your pearlescent coat with all of its associated steps.
2.) Add some cobalt blue Winsor & Newton Ink to Future. NO other brand will work for this effect, as they have pigment in them as opposed to W&N which is pure dye. Your Future should be 20-to-1 Future to Liquitex Flow-Aid.
3.) Airbrush multiple coats until you get the desired sheen.

I have done it multiple times with blue and brown W&N inks. Here it is on my Cosmo Zero engine nozzle from years back:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Z0mBe/l ... t=3&page=1

I hope this helps a bit.

Kenny

www.sigmalabsinc.com


Onward, proud eagle, to thee the cloud must yield.

aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:50 pm

Thanks for the tips guys, I like the Tamiya transparent blue idea.Might try that. It's actually the Keaton Batmobile that I want to paint. So I want it to be black, but sorta blue at the same time. I've read somewhere that's how it actually was. I've looked at automotive chameleon colour change paint, but I haven't found a black-blue combo. There's blue-green and blue-red and gold etc, but not black -blue. I'll keep scouring the internet and hopefully I'll find something. I have found some pearl powders on ebay, so may experiment with them.

Andrew Gorman
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Andrew Gorman » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:12 pm

Southwest forests, is that a recipe for a"Russian Iron" finish?

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southwestforests
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by southwestforests » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:16 pm

Andrew Gorman wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:12 pm
Southwest forests, is that a recipe for a"Russian Iron" finish?
No, Russia Iron is grey. I have been a train guy for a very long time. There is a very good Yahoo group named Early Rail and another named Civil War Railroads. There several museum researchers in there and other historical and archival professionals who have examined the matter and the metals.

Some references,
http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?p ... /index.htm
Russia iron is used for roasting pans, baking pans, and also for stove pipes, patent elbows, etc. It is a special grade of sheet iron with a medium grey, slightly mottled appearance, due to oxide adhering to the surface so tenaciously that it cannot be cracked off by repeated bendings. It is produced by binding multiple iron sheets (they claim the iron is important) together in "books" with coke or charcoal powder between the sheets. The book was then placed in acid baths, heated, and beaten (hence the term "planished"). The book was then broken apart, the sheets shuffled reassembled with more coke, then the acid bath heat and beating resumed. This process was repeated several times. Afterward the sheets were graded, with the medium grey being the highest quality and used for export. Lesser grades were used as roof iron.
And
http://www.railwayeng.com/dspp/russiron.htm
From: Jerry Kitts
Russian Iron

I received today (1/31/97) from Kyle K. Wyatt Curator of History of the
Nevada State Railroad Museum the promised information on Russian Iron.

One of the following papers is copied word for word from the original The
Engineering and Mining Journal, Dec. 1, 1888 pages 461 - 462. The paper was
written by F. Lynwood Garrison, Journal of the U. S. Association of Charcoal
Iron Workers. His paper is a summation of what Dr. Percy (Englishman) wrote
prior to 1874. I also have the entire article written by Dr. Percy published
in 1874. Garrison wrote the article because even in 1888 the general
engineering society thought that Russian Iron was a secret. Its not a secret
at all, in 1888 they didn¹t know were to look and in 1988 we still didn¹t
know were to look for the information.
...

"A particular kind of sheet-iron is manufactured in Russia, which, so far as
I know, has not been produced elsewhere. It is remarkable for its smooth,
glossy surface, which is metallic gray, and not bluish gray, like that of
common sheet-iron. On bending it backwards and forwards with the fingers no
scale is separated, as is the case with sheet-iron manufactured in the
ordinary way by rolling; but on folding it closely, as though it were paper,
and unfolding it, small scales are detached along the line of the fold."
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011

Andrew Gorman
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Andrew Gorman » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:47 am

Thanks! That is great information. I've been a tangential train guy for a while, but am getting more interested in the very early 19th Century.

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Kylwell
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Kylwell » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:11 pm

Preshade with clear blue overcoat. This is trick and you'll need a good light source (along with an airbrush) but spray the model black then use a really dark blue, like Tamiya XF-17 Sea Blue, as the shading. Then overcoat with clear blue, also from Tamiya.

Just clear blue over black gives you glossy black with the ever so slightest hint of blue. I keep meaning to try clear blue over a metallic black which should give a stronger blue return.
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aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:53 am

OK, thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys. After trolling the internet and spending hours researching and reading different sites etc, I have come to this conclusion.
I really wanted a colour changing "Chameleon" paint, but I couldn't find a black-blue one. They have all sorts of other colours, but not what I need for this project, which is a Keaton Batmobile.
I have contacted a couple of suppliers, and am awaiting their response as to the availability. So, in case I can't get it, I have decided on a ghost blue pearl over a black basecoat. But I need to be very careful as to the amount of powder in the mix and also the number of coats, otherwise, the blue will completely overwhelm the black, which will defeat the purpose. I really want this to look black, but with a hint of blue. So a bit of experimentation is needed before spraying the model.
Has anyone played around with ghost powders or colour changing paints? I'd like to know of any problems to look out for.

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Kylwell
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Kylwell » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:01 pm

aussie cylon wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:53 am
OK, thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys. After trolling the internet and spending hours researching and reading different sites etc, I have come to this conclusion.
I really wanted a colour changing "Chameleon" paint, but I couldn't find a black-blue one. They have all sorts of other colours, but not what I need for this project, which is a Keaton Batmobile.
I have contacted a couple of suppliers, and am awaiting their response as to the availability. So, in case I can't get it, I have decided on a ghost blue pearl over a black basecoat. But I need to be very careful as to the amount of powder in the mix and also the number of coats, otherwise, the blue will completely overwhelm the black, which will defeat the purpose. I really want this to look black, but with a hint of blue. So a bit of experimentation is needed before spraying the model.
Has anyone played around with ghost powders or colour changing paints? I'd like to know of any problems to look out for.
Ah, what you need is Alclad II's prismatic sapphire or Gunze Mr. Color Crystal blue. It'll give you black with a blue sheen. 4th from the right
Image
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aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:34 pm

Kylwell, I think you might be onto something there. \:D/
I'll look into it. Thanks

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southwestforests
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by southwestforests » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:37 pm

A whole new take on the "spoon theory" eh; spoon color theory. :wink:
(I happen to have rather more experience than I'd like to with the original spoon theory, oh well, such is life)
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011

aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:59 am

I just found this on the internet:
https://www.usagundamstore.com/products ... lue-enamel

So I'm thinking, if I spray this over a black basecoat, I should end up with a really cool effect??

What's the difference between transparent paint, such as Tamiya Clear Blue and candy paint?

I've got myself some Tamiya Black X-1, and I'll put some Tamiya Clear Blue X-23 over it and see what happens.

Thoughts and any input would be appreciated.

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southwestforests
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by southwestforests » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:42 am

Candy I think has metallic flecks in it. Will have to play in Google.
Found these,
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... aint.6653/
https://www.autopia.org/forums/hot-tub/ ... t-job.html
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011

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Kylwell
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Kylwell » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:22 pm

aussie cylon wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:59 am
I just found this on the internet:
https://www.usagundamstore.com/products ... lue-enamel

So I'm thinking, if I spray this over a black basecoat, I should end up with a really cool effect??

What's the difference between transparent paint, such as Tamiya Clear Blue and candy paint?

I've got myself some Tamiya Black X-1, and I'll put some Tamiya Clear Blue X-23 over it and see what happens.

Thoughts and any input would be appreciated.
That's just a clear blue. The difference is the name.
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Wug
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by Wug » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:16 am

Hi aussie cylon,

What are you trying to do?

Are you trying to replicate the color of the actual car?

Are you trying to replicate the color of the car as it appears on film?

Are you going for a scale effect of one of the above?

Are you doing something completely different?

Mike

aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:12 am

I've read somewhere that the car was actually black with a blue tinge to it when the light hits it at certain angles. Although I don't seem to remember any blue in the film, well, basically because it was always night time. So I can get away with it being plain black, like everyone else's model, but I really want to achieve that blue tinge to it, just for the cool factor, and to be a little different than everyone else. The blue I'm trying to achieve is a really really dark blue.

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dizzyfugu
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by dizzyfugu » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:46 am

What works well and has a visible effect in direkt light is a metallic base coat with a candy clear coat. You could use a black metallic paint with VERY fine mica particles (standard stuff, e .g. from a rattle can with a car color, is normally much too "rough" for a model kit), and cover it with a blue-tinted clear coat, before applying final clear varnish coat(s).
I have seen this with good effect (e. g. with a deep red candy varnish, creating a kind of "Black cherry" finish in the sunlight) on a car model (1:24, IIRC), but it will probably not work (as effectively) with an opaque black tone. Even though it might be worth an experiment?
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aussie cylon
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Re: Black/blue paint

Post by aussie cylon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:24 am

That's exactly what I was thinking. I've used Tamiya paints and experimented with:

a: gloss black basecoat with clear blue topcoat
b: metallic blue basecoat with smoke topcoat
c: clear blue basecoat with smoke topcoat
d: smoke basecoat with clear blue topcoat

Surprisingly, they all turned out quite similar. They all look black but when the light hits them at different angles, the blue comes out. But I'm still not convinced the colours I have created are quite right for what I want to achieve. I have ordered some pearl powders from ebay, and will play around with them when they get here. However, I'm still thinking that a candy is what I require. Will update when I receive the powders.

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