How to recreate a "takeoff" jet blast ?

Got a question about techniques, materials or other aspects of physically building a model? This is the place to ask.

Moderators: DasPhule, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Arthur Pendragon
Posts: 4450
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:31 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro

How to recreate a "takeoff" jet blast ?

Post by Arthur Pendragon »

The title says it all..

How can I recreate this in a diorama ?

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/G ... akeoff.jpg

Using lights is a certain thing... But how to recreate the "blast" in a static form ? Frosted plastic tubing ?

And I plan to do it in both 1/72 and 1/48 scale...

:?
For in much wisdom there is much grief; and he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow.
Ecclesiastes, 1:18
Tankmodeler
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:04 am
Location: Ontario

Post by Tankmodeler »

Clear tubing frosted by you (use 600-1000 grit sandpaper) in the areas where the colours will be and then painted on the inside with transparent colours might do it.

But, I have to say, that I've never, ever seen any static depiction of flame, fire, smoke or afterburning that looks the least bit realistic when complete. The static nature to the matierials used simply overwhelms any ability of (my) mind to see it as a good representation of a very non-static event. If you've seen these things before and liked the effect, then maybe it works for you. Not for me.

Now, this sort of thing _can_ be used to get a good representation if all you will be doing is taking a photo of the result. The 2-D nature of the still photo allows the static nature of the model to be combined to show movement relatively well, in some cases. But when you see the model in real ife, in front of you, I always find the results not just disappointing, but really, really disappointing. You might want to consider that before doing a lot of work, depending upon how you've percieved this sort of thing in the past.

Paul
The future is in your hands. Build it!
User avatar
Umi_Ryuzuki
Posts: 3841
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:22 pm
Location: PDX, Oregon
Contact:

Post by Umi_Ryuzuki »

How about taking a photo of the afterburner and copy and pasting it
in a band across the page, then cutting it out and rolling a tube or cone?
You could place it into the tail of the aircraft and then see if it works or not.

:)
'
"I have to go now,... because my life is stupid and leprachans are dorks."
Nyow!
/
=^o^=
User avatar
sleepymarine
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm
Location: Hanover, PA
Contact:

Post by sleepymarine »

I'm wondering how the frosted tube approach above would look if one were to illuminate it with a quickly, but randomly flashing LED...
Semper Fidelis,
The Insomniac Corporal

Zoey: "Preacher don't the bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?"
Shepherd Book: "Quite specific... it is however somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps..."
User avatar
Umi_Ryuzuki
Posts: 3841
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:22 pm
Location: PDX, Oregon
Contact:

Post by Umi_Ryuzuki »

sleepymarine wrote:I'm wondering how the frosted tube approach above would look if one were to illuminate it with a quickly, but randomly flashing LED...
Sort of like the tin robot with the plastic machine gun and the blinking light?

:)
'
"I have to go now,... because my life is stupid and leprachans are dorks."
Nyow!
/
=^o^=
User avatar
scratchy
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Langley, British Columbia Canada
Contact:

Post by scratchy »

Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.
User avatar
Ziz
Posts: 9374
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:24 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Post by Ziz »

Are you trying to re-create that exact shot? You're going to need to put it on some kind of display stand anyway so combine your efforts. Use two clear rods coming out of the exhausts into the base, then use Tamiya clear orange and yellow to paint the flame effect onto the rods where needed, leaving the rest of the rods clear. As modelers, we understand that the support rods aren't supposed to be "seen", so any time you can disguise them into the display, you're that much ahead of the game.
Modular
Models

Build your fleet
YOUR way.

http://www.modular-models.com
----------------------------------------------------------
"I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Alan Greenspan
____________________________________
"The customer that spends the least complains the most."
User avatar
Glorfindel
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Glorfindel »

Ziz and Scratchy are on to two very interesting and effective ideas. Both are sound.
Buck Laughlin: [after Beatrice the dog jumps up on the show judge] He went for her like she's made outta ham.
~Best in Show, 2000
User avatar
Chacal
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:09 pm
Location: Rio. Always unseasonably warm, even in the Winter, when we'll host the Summer Olympic Games of 2016

Post by Chacal »

Four words for you: "Konga, a Mulher-Gorila".

Do you know this carnival side-show illusion? The woman who turns into a gorilla? It's done with mirrors. If you angle it correctly, you can have the F-14 in one "box" and the "flame" in another, with a black background, lit with LEDs. Add a 45-degree glass pane to reflect the flame and it'll look like a ghostly, semi-transparent image superimposed onto the F-14. As it is done with mirrors, it is viewable from different angles.
Sheer elegance in its simplicity.

Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
User avatar
MillenniumFalsehood
Posts: 16974
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:23 pm
Location: Wichita, KS, USA
Contact:

Post by MillenniumFalsehood »

That's a brilliant idea, Chacal! I don't build jets much, but that would be useful for things like the Space Shuttle.
If a redhead works at a bakery, does that make him a gingerbread man?

Ponies defeat a Star Trek villain? Give them a Star Wars award ceremony!
User avatar
scratchy
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Langley, British Columbia Canada
Contact:

Post by scratchy »

scratchy wrote:Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.
I used the technique on my Falcon cockpit and gunwell
User avatar
naoto
Posts: 29234
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:22 pm
Location: Temple City, California, USA

Post by naoto »

Chacal wrote:Four words for you: "Konga, a Mulher-Gorila".

Do you know this carnival side-show illusion? The woman who turns into a gorilla? It's done with mirrors. If you angle it correctly, you can have the F-14 in one "box" and the "flame" in another, with a black background, lit with LEDs. Add a 45-degree glass pane to reflect the flame and it'll look like a ghostly, semi-transparent image superimposed onto the F-14. As it is done with mirrors, it is viewable from different angles.
Ah.. I assume you're referring to Pepper's Ghost
Naoto Kimura
木村直人
User avatar
Chacal
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:09 pm
Location: Rio. Always unseasonably warm, even in the Winter, when we'll host the Summer Olympic Games of 2016

Post by Chacal »

Yes, Naoto! That's exactly it. I mentioned the "mulher gorila" bit because Arthur is from Rio and there was this particular 'woman into a gorilla' sideshow act in an amusement park in here. He'd probably know that.
Sheer elegance in its simplicity.

Political unrest in dictatorships is rather like a round of rock-paper-scissors: The oposition goes on denouncing the regime on the papers, the regime censors the papers, rock-throwing ensues.
Darthsideous
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:58 am

Post by Darthsideous »

scratchy wrote:Using an epoxy putty, I would sculpt the "flames" so that they would fit into the jets. Once the "flames" have cured, I would then pour a two part mould. Then I would suspend an LED at the base of the form so that it's hidden once in the jet, and I would inject clear resin into the mould.

Once cured, I would airbrush the colours of the flame with Tamiya "Clear" paints, blending them to match the image that you have.

Yeah, it's a bit of work, but I think it would give you the results that you're looking for.
I think this is a great idea
rayra
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:40 am
Location: Los Angeles

Post by rayra »

build / sculpt it using clear 100% silicone caulking. Build it up in tubes / layers, as if decorating a cake, but hanging upside down. Use a thin clear rod as a core. Sculpt / feather the final layers. End light with very bright LEDs. In fact I'd think arranging the lights in a ring inside the engine would give the best appearance.
Signature Intentionally Left Blank
User avatar
cokefiend
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: bottom left of Canaduh
Contact:

Post by cokefiend »

If i may, here are 3 shots of one way Ive seen it done.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cokefiend/ ... 52add68320
"what about please and thank you?"
"I think they killed each other, y'know, one of those murder/suicide things." HS
monsterboiler
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:38 pm

Post by monsterboiler »

This thread makes me think of this:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/37085?browseid=3567182

which I think is so effective because of the local lighting effects. So maybe the secret is to include a little bit of carrier deck below your F-14 in the display and make it appear to be lit from the exhaust.
NNYGamer
Posts: 2198
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:38 pm
Location: Northernmost NY (aka Massena)
Contact:

Post by NNYGamer »

LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
I have no signature.
User avatar
Kylwell
Moderator
Posts: 29643
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: Lakewood, CO
Contact:

Post by Kylwell »

NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
Getting it @ all would be problematic.
Abolish Alliteration
NNYGamer
Posts: 2198
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:38 pm
Location: Northernmost NY (aka Massena)
Contact:

Post by NNYGamer »

Kylwell wrote:
NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
Getting it @ all would be problematic.
United Nuclear has it in granular form, sold out of the 29mm x 7mm solid disk
I have no signature.
User avatar
Kylwell
Moderator
Posts: 29643
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:25 pm
Location: Lakewood, CO
Contact:

Post by Kylwell »

NNYGamer wrote:
Kylwell wrote:
NNYGamer wrote:LED lit aerogel comes to mind. But getting it in the size you need would be expensive.
Getting it @ all would be problematic.
United Nuclear has it in granular form, sold out of the 29mm x 7mm solid disk
Last time I checked tho' you really can't meld it all into a shape.
Abolish Alliteration
LrdSatyr8
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:22 am

Post by LrdSatyr8 »

Personally the best way I can think to do it would be to create a pattern of the flames in photoshop. Then spray some hairspray on a sheet of clear plastic sheet (like from the cover of a project notebook). Then print it on the sheet (with the hair spray side up), cut it out, roll it into a tube (with the printed side inside), and insert into the engines. For extra effect, put an LED into the engine ends and you should be able to acheive a pretty realistic looking exhaust flame.
When I die I'm leaving my body to science fiction!
User avatar
dizzyfugu
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:14 am
Location: Right behind you!
Contact:

Post by dizzyfugu »

I achieved some good results with polishing cotton:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2345947808

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 345947808/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2345947808

Works also well for gunfire/missiles!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... 2283966622

Basically, it's a cone made from white polishing cotton, which is AFAIK full acryllic stuff, not natural cotton. The the flames were sprayed onto the thing, using dayglo orange, normal orange and yellow - only lightly, the cotton is not to be soaked. The cone's interior remains white.

When you use some artificial light for photos, the interior reflects it and creates a kind of glow - on the píctures it looks pretty convincing, and even on a display model the look is quite good.
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
http://www.flickr.com/dizzyfugu
starracer73
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:39 pm
Contact:

Post by starracer73 »

This may be out of the box, but you may want to try flames made of candy. Here is a photo:

http://cake-decorating.livejournal.com/932249.html

I think that these could be melted and shaped. Might be worth a try.[/url]
Tankmodeler
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:04 am
Location: Ontario

Post by Tankmodeler »

Candy or any other foodstuff is a really bad idea. Not only is it really suseptable to moisture, but also heat, rot and pests.

Nay, nay!
The future is in your hands. Build it!
User avatar
dizzyfugu
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:14 am
Location: Right behind you!
Contact:

Post by dizzyfugu »

An addendum, using the CG option: the Lightning's afterburner flames come from a real Lightning, which was photographed in almost the same angle, so the flames "fit" into the seting.

Copy/paste - but it IS convincing... :P

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... hotostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/ ... otostream/
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
http://www.flickr.com/dizzyfugu
Post Reply