The Abbey of Aves

Got a question about techniques, materials or other aspects of physically building a model? This is the place to ask.

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Post by USS Atlantis » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:16 am

Echoing Joe

For the smaller gaps that you're talking about, I personally use the Paste, it's thinner and works into those small gaps better
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Post by TER-OR » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:56 pm

Scribe with a rounded knife (roll it through, don't drag) before the putty has fully cured. Or, use a small saw to scribe through the area later. This will minimize chipping.

I don't like the paste. I do thin the putty, though.
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Post by No_6 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:47 am

Heya all. I need to use my Apoxie Sculpt to build a new rim on my 2nd NX project. I increased the diameter of the top half of the primary hull with a sheet of styrene and need to fit the halves together and fill it, sand and then drill the holes for the windows. But then I need to be able to separate the halves after so I can clean up all the shavings and add the lighting. Tips?
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Post by TER-OR » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:07 pm

Yes, yes, yes, easy task #6.

Anything glossy will prevent Aves from sticking. This is VERY useful.

Correct a joint and still have it removable:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ter-or/438 ... 373328365/

You can use packing tape if the joint is flat. Cling film works well if the joint is irregular. Don't use thin cellophane tape, it's a pain to remove from the parts. The thicker stuff works relatively well.

You can let the Aves cure for about 30 min, roll it into a snake and lay it along the joint. Then push the parts together - one side prepared for non-stcking - and let it cure. Allow the Aves to squirt out and sand flush later, or trim it right away, your choice.

If it's a very thin gap you can thin the Aves and apply more as a paste.
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Post by Kylwell » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Not everything glossy will prevent Aves from sticking. I've got a blob of it on my airbrush body that will not come off. Cling film doesn't have the energy to let Aves stick well, I'd suspect the same from celluloid tapes & what.
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Post by No_6 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:48 pm

Cool, thanks!
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Post by seam-filler » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:22 am

Kylwell wrote:Not everything glossy will prevent Aves from sticking. I've got a blob of it on my airbrush body that will not come off. Cling film doesn't have the energy to let Aves stick well, I'd suspect the same from celluloid tapes & what.
Intrigued by this, I wanteed to take a mold of something with loads of shape and compound curves. Cling film didn't work well conforming to the shape, but Parafilm M worked perfectly. The stuff may be swine to work with for masking, but for this task it was perfect.
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Post by Kylwell » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:17 am

Just don't get any Safety Solution on it or you'll have an utter mess. Something about Aves' Safety Solution (and CA accelerator) dissolves Parafilm into a gooey mess.
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Post by seam-filler » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:19 am

That is really useful advice indeed. Thank you.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:35 am

Kylwell wrote:Just don't get any Safety Solution on it or you'll have an utter mess. Something about Aves' Safety Solution (and CA accelerator) dissolves Parafilm into a gooey mess.
Are you using the "Safety Solution" or "Red Hot Magma?" I make that mistake all the time and accidentally dissolve things.

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Post by neptunesurvey » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:19 pm

I bought a pack of the small set and used it for the first time over the weekend. I have no idea why I never tried this stuff before. Would have saved me many of headaches in the past. ](*,)

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Post by generalFROSTY » Sat May 01, 2010 12:09 am

Hello all,
I'm new here - joined up to learn as much as I can to prepare me for my Refit 1/350 build.
I was directed to this thread when I posed the question about putty options.
As you may know, there are several rather large gaps on the PL Refit kit that need addressed - namely, the large gaps where the pylons meet the secondary hull.
From what I gather from this thread thus far, it would be advantageous for me to get the PASTE and the Apoxie SCULPT - the paste used for smaller gaps and the paste to work into the larger ones.
I haven't worked on a model kit in over fifteen years - and even then, though skilled at painting, I was never one to learn and use more advanced modeling techniques such as using putty to hide those unsightly seems.
I have not yet started my official build thread for this kit as I am still gathering info and buying products to start.
If anyone wants to recommend specific Aves products for my build, post here or send me a PM.
Your support and advice is much appreciated!
-Jimmy

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Post by Kylwell » Sat May 01, 2010 11:13 am

I'm not fond of the paste. Too sticky, too goopy, too much of a pain to work with. If the gap is too small to work the sculpt into I'll just use rubber impregnated CA and finish it all out with Mr. Surfacer 500.
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Post by TER-OR » Sun May 02, 2010 12:04 am

I'll also thin the Aves Putty to a softer consistency and use that instead of the paste. I didn't have any luck with the paste at all.
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Post by M3 » Mon May 10, 2010 8:43 pm

Hey! My Aves didn't set- after 18 hours, it was still wet! Will cold or atmospheric moisture cause longer set times?
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Post by Kylwell » Mon May 10, 2010 8:47 pm

Cold will affect cure times.

Lack of a proper mixing will really affect cure times.
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Post by TER-OR » Tue May 11, 2010 10:30 pm

I haven't had Aves mess up like that, but I did with Milliput years ago.
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Post by Dr. Yo » Wed May 12, 2010 2:22 pm

I have taken the plunge, and after recieving my first 1lb. tub in the
mail last week, have found it to be good. Much like A+B, but a bit
softer on final cure.
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Post by Butters » Sun May 16, 2010 1:24 am

A question: I've thinned my Aves Apoxie Paste with alcohol to get a speadable consistancy, but it takes forever to harden to a point I can sand it. Will heat cure it? Can I put it in the oven for a bit? Hold it over my space heater? And if the oven is acceptable, is there any danger because I thinned it with 70% Isopropyl?
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Post by wraith1701 » Sun May 16, 2010 7:27 am

Butters wrote:A question: I've thinned my Aves Apoxie Paste with alcohol to get a speadable consistancy, but it takes forever to harden to a point I can sand it. Will heat cure it? Can I put it in the oven for a bit? Hold it over my space heater? And if the oven is acceptable, is there any danger because I thinned it with 70% Isopropyl?
What I learned at Wonderfest:

-90% alcohol or higher is what you want to use to thin Aves

-Yes; heat does speed curing. I wouldn't go much higher than 100 to 110 degrees F. You don't want to destroy your kit.
-Eric

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Post by USS Atlantis » Sun May 16, 2010 11:01 am

wraith1701 wrote:
Butters wrote:A question: I've thinned my Aves Apoxie Paste with alcohol to get a speadable consistancy, but it takes forever to harden to a point I can sand it. Will heat cure it? Can I put it in the oven for a bit? Hold it over my space heater? And if the oven is acceptable, is there any danger because I thinned it with 70% Isopropyl?
What I learned at Wonderfest:

-90% alcohol or higher is what you want to use to thin Aves

-Yes; heat does speed curing. I wouldn't go much higher than 100 to 110 degrees F. You don't want to destroy your kit.
Echo Wraith here

Best bet is to stop by the pharmacy of any hospital/clinic and get the 99% Isopropyl they carry

The 70% stuff at the Drug Stores has "fillers" that can affect the drying time of not only Aves, but anything else you mix it with

Only thing to do now is wait it out, or dry in cool oven - don't go higher than 110 as Wraith has said, else you'll chance melting plastic
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sun May 16, 2010 11:27 am

USS Atlantis wrote:
wraith1701 wrote:
Butters wrote:A question: I've thinned my Aves Apoxie Paste with alcohol to get a speadable consistancy, but it takes forever to harden to a point I can sand it. Will heat cure it? Can I put it in the oven for a bit? Hold it over my space heater? And if the oven is acceptable, is there any danger because I thinned it with 70% Isopropyl?
What I learned at Wonderfest:

-90% alcohol or higher is what you want to use to thin Aves

-Yes; heat does speed curing. I wouldn't go much higher than 100 to 110 degrees F. You don't want to destroy your kit.
Echo Wraith here

Best bet is to stop by the pharmacy of any hospital/clinic and get the 99% Isopropyl they carry

The 70% stuff at the Drug Stores has "fillers" that can affect the drying time of not only Aves, but anything else you mix it with
With respect, you're high on the Aves smoke, brother Atlantis. ;)

70-percent Isopropyl is 70-percent isopropyl and 30-percent distilled water. 90-percent has ten percent water and so on. There are no fillers. Here's some MSDS sheets:

http://www.hvchemical.com/msds/isal-70.htm
http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/89530.htm


Water does not affect the drying time of Aves. The stuff is designed to cure underwater. It hardens via amide catalyzation, not hydration or hydrogenation like cyanoacrylates and acrylic resins, respectively. If your Aves isn't drying fast enough, it's not mixed properly, mixed in improper ratios (i.e. not enough hardener), or you have an old batch or one suffering from cross contamination. Remember, your hands never touch the separate parts in the tubs. Keep separately labeled "A" and "B" butter(s) knives for each tub and never, never place the "A" knife in the "B" container and vice-versa. That will eliminate 90-percent of your hardening and cross contamination problems right there. And your Aves will last just about forever as it will not go bad from cross-contamination. I'm on the last little bit of a five-year old tub and it's working fine.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

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Post by Butters » Sun May 16, 2010 1:47 pm

I'm downright religous when it comes to using seperate popsicle sticks for each tube so I don't think it's cross contamination. It could definately be improperly mixed or thinned, however.

Also, when next I buy Aves, should I get the Putty as opposed to the paste?
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Post by wraith1701 » Sun May 16, 2010 4:08 pm

Butters wrote:I'm downright religous when it comes to using seperate popsicle sticks for each tube so I don't think it's cross contamination. It could definately be improperly mixed or thinned, however.

Also, when next I buy Aves, should I get the Putty as opposed to the paste?
Unless you're trying to fill very fine seams, I'd say you're better off using the putty. Putty can be thinned down, but I can't imagine how you'd thicken up the paste.
-Eric

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Post by Butters » Sun May 16, 2010 5:12 pm

Gotcha. As to putting a kit in the oven, the paste is sspread over a Urethane form. No problem putting that in a low temp oven. No way I'd EVER put a plastic kit in the oven! Too many variables could happen; All bad!
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon May 17, 2010 12:11 am

Butters wrote:I'm downright religous when it comes to using seperate popsicle sticks for each tube so I don't think it's cross contamination. It could definately be improperly mixed or thinned, however.

Also, when next I buy Aves, should I get the Putty as opposed to the paste?
Good to hear you are keeping the faith, brother.

The only time I ever use the paste is when I need to get into a really, really tight area that will be absolutely impossible to sand when dry or will be very difficult to smooth when wet as traditional Aves with alcohol or water. If I need thin Aves, say around a canopy seam or someplace I just want to minimize or avoid sanding, but can safely work with a brush and Aves, I do two things:

1.) I thin the Aves with Safety Solvent or alcohol. I like it to be about the consistency of peanut butter.
2.) I mask the areas I don't want Avesed off and smooth the Aves with solvent- or alcohol-soaked paint brushes and Clay Shaper sculpting tools.

This method taught to me by Field Bishop Terry (TER-OR) has allowed me to generate absolutely invisible feathering around things like canopies and wing roots when not a lot of sculpting is needed.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

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Post by Butters » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:38 am

Well, I bought some Aves Putty from the SM Store. I've not used it yet, but I think I'm done with Aves Paste. A long time ago, I added some water to both A and B parts to (hopefully) add some spreadability to it. However, I've since learned that I should have used the 90%+ Alcohol to thin it. :roll:

So, I think my paste is done for; usless you can tell me a way to save it. If all else fails, it makes a great adhesive. I've used it for kitchen and bathroom applications.
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Post by Kylwell » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:03 am

I'm not fond of the paste. Too much of a pain to mix and not easily spreadable enough.
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Post by Butters » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:35 am

Kylwell wrote:Too much of a pain to mix and not easily spreadable enough.
That is what led me to adding water, alcohol etc just to try to find a way to spread it. Mixed, striaght out of the tubs, it's thoroughly unworkable. And I might add, it put me off Aves and further Aves purchases for over a year.
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Post by Mark Yungblut » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:30 pm

You are better off making the paste from the regular Aves thining with alcohol.
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