The Abbey of Aves

Got a question about techniques, materials or other aspects of physically building a model? This is the place to ask.

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ryoga
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Post by ryoga » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:16 am

Thanks Thomas. Will send them an email request later

Here's hoping [-o<

BTW .. edited ... just found out SM also carries this :oops: 3 weeks of searching and its right under my nose :P

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starmanmm
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Post by starmanmm » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:58 am

Yeah... stuff like that happens.....

alot to me sometimes! :wink: :oops:

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:37 pm

starmanmm wrote:Ok.

On another point... how do you store either type of aves? Cool dark place or in the fridge?
I contend it doesn't matter as long as it's nothing extreme. As long as you don't cross contaminate the tubs, the stuff will store for a long, long time at your room-temeperature bench. I have four-plus year old tubs at my bench. I also have two knives, labeled "A" and "B" respectively for the Aves. They were used when I bought my first Aves during my Ascension to the Church in 2005. They were never used in the wrong tubs and have never been cleaned (I have other clean Aves "A" and "B" knives too ;) ). The Aves residue on each tip is still as "Avesy" as that in the 2005 tubs. I even brought the dirty knives out to the Epoxy putty class Terry and I did in 2008 just to make the point.
Egon Spangler wrote:Don't cross the streams
...or, in our case, don't cross the tubs. Don't dip from the tubs with your hands either, as that makes you contaminate the "A" tub with "B" tub goodness and vice-versa via the Aves residue on your hands. I used the same putty discipline with my old Elmer's epoxy putty and my Milliput. As soon as I got the Elmers way back in the 20th century, I noticed it was hard where the black and white ribbons met (they weren't separated). "Eureka!" I thought, "I'll separate them." Guess what? They still work great for making little rocks and as filler/groundwork base and, with their little "black" and "white" labeled plastic knives, are still nice and pliable 14-plus years later in their separated containers (I used it last summer on my AFS Mk I display base). I graduated to Milliput and then ascended to Aves, and all is well. But, always, always cut with separate, designated knives, keep the hands out of the tubs/ribbons. and your Aves will serve you well. I have Aves "A" and "B" knives by color, Milliput "Blue" and "white" knives and,of course, the old Elmer's "black" and "white" labeled plastic knives.

I hope this helps you out.

Kenny

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Post by starmanmm » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:56 pm

Thanks

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Post by strangelove » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:41 pm

What is the bonding strength of Apoxie Sculpt?

I have to realign a nacelle on my 33 inch PL Enterprise. The nacelle is attatched, but I have cut a 1/32 inch channel on both sides of the pylon near its base so I can realign it (The channel does not cut all the way through the pylon). Now I need something to fill the narrow cut and hold the pylon in place.

I may have to make a wider channel in the pylon to allow more adhesive to sit in it and create a bound, we shall see.

In the meantime, is this plan pure folly?

Thank again,
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:41 am

strangelove wrote:What is the bonding strength of Apoxie Sculpt?

I have to realign a nacelle on my 33 inch PL Enterprise. The nacelle is attatched, but I have cut a 1/32 inch channel on both sides of the pylon near its base so I can realign it (The channel does not cut all the way through the pylon). Now I need something to fill the narrow cut and hold the pylon in place.

I may have to make a wider channel in the pylon to allow more adhesive to sit in it and create a bound, we shall see.

In the meantime, is this plan pure folly?

Thank again,
When it is dry, it is plastic. It is, as Terry tells me, an amide based epoxy polymer. Mix it together, let it set, and it is comparable to solid styrene. As long as the area is clean (no dust, oil, etc..) and is not too glossy to prevent the stuff from grabbing hold, it will hold fast. The stuff's not an adhesive, per se; think of the Apoxie Sculpt as a sculpting medium, as that is what it is for. It excels at filling big gaps, as it grabs hold tight and, when dry, is essentially the same density as resin or styrene.

The only caveat is the joint needs to be left alone as the stuff cures, so it doesn't pull away from the Aves. Other than that, you're good to go.

I hope this helps you out.

Kenny

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Post by Thomas E. Johnson » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:53 pm

So we can use it as a reinforcing agent then in high stress areas?
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:54 am

Thomas E. Johnson wrote:So we can use it as a reinforcing agent then in high stress areas?
Yes. Trek guys use it around the base of warp pylons. I sink display rod sockets in it and let it dry for posing stuff in flight. Another example is on aircraft on the ground - replace the uncarraiage's connecting post with a pin and make an accompanying Aves-and-tubing-socket for said undercarriage and pin. It's nice for heavy, resin builds where movement, and hence shearing off of the kit's undercarriage posts could be a concern. Again, just make sure the area is clean and not dusty - as you would do with any scultping medium or filler - and you will be amazed.

I hope this helps.

Kenny

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Post by TER-OR » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:35 pm

Lt. Z0mBe wrote:It is, as Terry tells me, an amide based epoxy polymer.
The polymer isn't amide-based. The dehydration reaction binding creating polymers is amide-catalyzed. Hence the corn chip aroma.

Rough up the area, slice scratches in it, or cement anchors if you need to really have a strong surface joint. I've even used cross-bars. It's great for reinforcing thin material like vacuformed parts, and for embedding weights in irregular areas.
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Post by Kylwell » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:38 pm

TER-OR wrote:
Lt. Z0mBe wrote:It is, as Terry tells me, an amide based epoxy polymer.
The polymer isn't amide-based. The dehydration reaction binding creating polymers is amide-catalyzed. Hence the corn chip aroma.

Rough up the area, slice scratches in it, or cement anchors if you need to really have a strong surface joint. I've even used cross-bars. It's great for reinforcing thin material like vacuformed parts, and for embedding weights in irregular areas.
...uh-huh.... sure.... :shock:
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:57 am

TER-OR wrote:
Lt. Z0mBe wrote:It is, as Terry tells me, an amide based epoxy polymer.
The polymer isn't amide-based. The dehydration reaction binding creating polymers is amide-catalyzed. Hence the corn chip aroma.
Ohh sure, now you're going to invoke chemistry in a faith-based discussion. :D

Thanks for the clarification, Field Bishop Terry.

[-o<

Kenny

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Post by starmanmm » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:29 pm

Is there going to be a quiz on this? :P :wink:

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Post by Halanar_D » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:21 pm

Want to join the converted here.
Started using it on a bash I'm doing and found that it lived up to ALL of it's promises so far.

No more Squadron
No more "green stuff" unless I need some flexibility.

Aves will be the material of choice from here on
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Post by ryoga » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:07 am

Just received a package from Starship Modeller today :8) Its heavy, and in not too big a box.

Can't wait to try this out soon :D

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Post by Thomas E. Johnson » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:11 pm

I just had 5 pounds of this stuff delivered from the SSM Store. I shall be trying it tonight. :D
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Post by Thomas E. Johnson » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:22 pm

I am now one of the faithful to this flock. This stuff works great, and sands much easier than Magic Sculpt, which seems like sanding concrete when compared to this stuff. :twisted:
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Post by TER-OR » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:28 am

If you need to increase the structural strength, embed some wires or, even better, tubes in the epoxy when you fill the area. You can bend the tubes so they go where you need and fill the part with the putty. You can take a lot of load off a joint by transferring it lower in the piece.
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Post by Dr. Yo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:39 pm

Thomas E. Johnson wrote:I am now one of the faithful to this flock. This stuff works great, and sands much easier than Magic Sculpt, which seems like sanding concrete when compared to this stuff. :twisted:

Is that the paste or the putty you're talking about? I've used A+B putty
for years, and while I like it, it does get mighty hard when it cures.
Something that was a little softer would be a plus now that I seem to
be scratch-building about 90% of the time...( And I have gotten more
and more into Ma.K, which practically demands a high level of putty-fu...)
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Post by Kylwell » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:42 pm

Dr. Yo wrote:
Thomas E. Johnson wrote:I am now one of the faithful to this flock. This stuff works great, and sands much easier than Magic Sculpt, which seems like sanding concrete when compared to this stuff. :twisted:

Is that the paste or the putty you're talking about? I've used A+B putty
for years, and while I like it, it does get mighty hard when it cures.
Something that was a little softer would be a plus now that I seem to
be scratch-building about 90% of the time...( And I have gotten more
and more into Ma.K, which practically demands a high level of putty-fu...)
And Mr. Surfacer 500-fu and......
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Post by TER-OR » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:28 pm

A&B Putty is much harder than Aves Putty. That's not always a good thing. I find it generally a bad thing.
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Post by Thomas E. Johnson » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:02 am

Dr. Yo wrote:
Thomas E. Johnson wrote:I am now one of the faithful to this flock. This stuff works great, and sands much easier than Magic Sculpt, which seems like sanding concrete when compared to this stuff. :twisted:

Is that the paste or the putty you're talking about? I've used A+B putty
for years, and while I like it, it does get mighty hard when it cures.
Something that was a little softer would be a plus now that I seem to
be scratch-building about 90% of the time...( And I have gotten more
and more into Ma.K, which practically demands a high level of putty-fu...)

The Epoxie-Sculpt. I haven't tried the paste yet.
Thomas E. Johnson

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Post by starmanmm » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:33 pm

When sanding aves.... what grit is good to start with?

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Post by Squall67584 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:51 pm

Depending on how thick it is, and how sloppy I was when applying it, I usually use 150 grit, or 100 if it was really bad. Diamond files also are good.
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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:33 am

starmanmm wrote:When sanding aves.... what grit is good to start with?
It's the same density and hardness as styrene, and I treat is as such. I get it pretty smooth when sculpting it in, so I can usually start with 220 or 320-grit. If I need to do further sculpting with files, I start with the 180-grit diamond straight and riffler files and work up to the 360-grit.

I hope this helps.

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Post by starmanmm » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:59 am

Thanks all.

I am using it on a resin kit where I joined two parts (they make up an arm). It is pretty smooth, but once I prime it, I know that there will be some places that will need to be shaped better to go with the flow of the arm.

So I was wondering how tough aves is to sand seeing that when I have used it, I never had a need to sand it.

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Post by Whiteraven_2001 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:01 am

I read a lot of measurement-by-knife. Does anyone use anything more exact, or is it pretty much "close to equal will work?"

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Post by Lt. Z0mBe » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:35 am

Whiteraven_2001 wrote:I read a lot of measurement-by-knife. Does anyone use anything more exact, or is it pretty much "close to equal will work?"
I dip from "A" with the "A" knife and from "B" with the "B" knife, rolling each piece into a little ball and holding them side-by-side. I get the little balls as dense as possible prior to comparing. I find this gives the most consistent results. To answer you question, I use your method and then expand on it with an extra step to make the comparison easier.

I hope this helps.

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Post by Mark Yungblut » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:46 pm

TER-OR wrote:A&B Putty is much harder than Aves Putty. That's not always a good thing. I find it generally a bad thing.
Well yes and no IMHO. For flat out Structural strength I'd go with the Aves that has Aluminum powder in it. A+B is great for sculpting but not so good for thin applications such as sheet form type of work. I Mostly use A+B as it is what I taugght myself to sculpt with. I tend to use Aves for filling seams etc.

The one thing A+B is great for is milling and turning as long as it is very thuroughly mixed.

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Aves product question

Post by ArcadeKidd » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:05 am

Hi All,

Some advise needed from the Aves Gurus.

I'm wondering which product, sculpt/paste
would be best for filling in seams that are
about 2mm wide or less.

My main concern is that I'll need to rescribe
the same area afterwards.
I've tried different things and they always
seem to "flake" when rescribing. How suitable
is the aves products for this example.

If a better example is needed...I want to mount
some wings to a fuselage. The seams aren't perfect
so I need to fill them in, but since there is supposed
to be a panel line between the wing and fuselage
I need to scribe it back on.

Thanks,
AK

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Post by Joseph C. Brown » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:37 am

Both Aves and it's cousin Magicsculpt are easily scribed after they have fully cured. They will be marginally harder and tougher to scribe than the surrounding styrene, but not by much - just be slow and careful.

I have never known either of these putties to flake when scribed. Certainly not when I've worked with them in the past; they both scribe really nicely.
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